More Stupid Routing — TomTom Community

More Stupid Routing

BrianEBrianE Posts: 547 [Exalted Navigator]
Well, I had another example today of very poor routing on my GO Camper.

° Picture 1 shows the sensible route (green arrows) and the wholly inappropriate route chosen by my GO Camper (red arrows) set to Heavy Camper vehicle type with maximum width.
° Picture 2 shows Jennet Tree Lane, the correct route, with a vehicle in the photo to indicate its width.
° Picture 3 shows Hawthorn Lane, TomTom's route, again with a vehicle in the photo, indicating its width.
° Picture 4 shows the last passing place for over 341 metres.
° Picture 5 shows the road in between the passing places.
° Picture 6 shows the next passing place, over 341 metres from the last one.
° Picture 7 shows the roads above on a map.
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Now consider this. If you had been driving a heavy camper vehicle, or even a car along that road and had met another vehicle coming the other way, how would you feel about having to reverse probably at least 150 metres, assuming you had met halfway, which of course you wouldn't know, so the actual distance could be even more? What about on a dark, wet winter's night with windows steaming up or in icy/snowy conditions? Does this not indicate once again that as the way things stand, TomTom devices are totally unreliable and therefore unfit for purpose? When is someone in the company going to take this matter seriously and get this problem sorted out? It seems that either they don't care or they don't have the necessary expertise to deal with this or both and for a company of TomTom's size and undoubted financial resources, that's absolutely shocking. Today, I was lucky that there was somewhere for me to turn around before going down Hawthorn Lane, but usually that is not the case. I purchased my GO Camper specifically to avoid narrow country lanes like that, but it seems that I have wasted my money.

Comments

  • norfolknewboynorfolknewboy Posts: 11 [Apprentice Traveler]
    TT's route is probably at least 6inches shorter =)
    You should see some of the tracks my TT6200 has sent my large motorhome! Probably the worst was 6 miles along an unmade forest track with fallen logs and large boulders. The dual-carriageway adjacent to it would have been anyone else's choice and it would have avoided going 270deg round two roundabouts.
    I keep getting adverts telling me that TT is a leader in the autonomous car field and "would I recommend them". HA HA HA!
  • Oskar-2Oskar-2 Posts: 1,632 [Revered Voyager]
    Probably the worst was 6 miles along an unmade forest track with fallen logs and large boulders.
    And still you took this way? Once there was a time we had news articles about drivers telling the authorities it was their SatNav guiding them into the river. :)

  • BemboBembo Posts: 16,518
    Superuser
    edited January 2020
    Oskar-2 wrote: »
    Probably the worst was 6 miles along an unmade forest track with fallen logs and large boulders.
    And still you took this way? Once there was a time we had news articles about drivers telling the authorities it was their SatNav guiding them into the river. :)

    Why not ?
  • Lost_SoulLost_Soul Posts: 299 [Supreme Pioneer]
    @BrianE

    Can you let me have your actual route - Start and End destination plus "all" the Vehicle Settings from your Go Camper please?

    Only I plotted a route on both my Go Camper and a Go 6250 plus Mydrive (PC) from the centre of Powick to the junction of Jennet Tree Lane / Madresfield Road, and on all three the route was via the A449 Malvern / Worcester Road then Madresfield Road. (Heavy Camper / Truck Settings - same Dimensions / weights).

    I do not know the area and tried looking over the routes using Google Street view but could not spot any weight / height restrictions etc that would explain why you were sent down Hawthorn Lane.

    I will use your route and settings on my 2 devices to see if I can replicate your journey and get the same results as you.

    I share your frustration and get so angry when our devices just do not do what Tomtom claim they are capable of.

    As an aside I have noticed bizarrely; changing the height of the vehicle can change the route offered by the devices even if there are no height restrictions on the Route. :/



  • YamFazManYamFazMan Posts: 20,282
    Superusers
    edited February 2020
    Hi
    @BrianE & @Lost_Soul

    I was reading the User Guide for the early Tomtom Rider device Pre-NAV4 & Nav5 devices
    A slider to choose between Main roads & Country lanes seems a good Idea....
    6a4f1myhz3m4.jpg
    ATB YFM
  • BrianEBrianE Posts: 547 [Exalted Navigator]
    Lost_Soul wrote: »
    @BrianE

    Can you let me have your actual route - Start and End destination plus "all" the Vehicle Settings from your Go Camper please?

    Only I plotted a route on both my Go Camper and a Go 6250 plus Mydrive (PC) from the centre of Powick to the junction of Jennet Tree Lane / Madresfield Road, and on all three the route was via the A449 Malvern / Worcester Road then Madresfield Road. (Heavy Camper / Truck Settings - same Dimensions / weights).

    I do not know the area and tried looking over the routes using Google Street view but could not spot any weight / height restrictions etc that would explain why you were sent down Hawthorn Lane.

    I will use your route and settings on my 2 devices to see if I can replicate your journey and get the same results as you.

    I share your frustration and get so angry when our devices just do not do what Tomtom claim they are capable of.

    As an aside I have noticed bizarrely; changing the height of the vehicle can change the route offered by the devices even if there are no height restrictions on the Route. :/



    Hi Lost Soul. The reason my sat nav didn't just use the A449 was probably because there were roadworks just before the Madresfield turnoff. However, I would have expected it to use Jennet Tree Lane, which runs parallel to the A449, rather than trying to send me down Hawthorn Lane (which was in a much poorer condition that the Google street view shows after all the rain we have had this winter). I'll check my settings later today and post them here. In the meantime, here is the response from TomTom:-

    "I have discussed this case with our Technical team and I would like to explain you that this is an issue which is under investigation with no current workaround available.

    I have logged the case under the ccare ticket. As soon as I have received a reply from our Technical department I will update you immediately."
  • BrianEBrianE Posts: 547 [Exalted Navigator]
    Just tried it again, using Temeside Way, Powick as the starting point and Crown Lea Avenue, Malvern as the destination and this time it has planned the route through Callow End, along the B4424, then along Clevelode Lane and onto Guarlford Road.
    My current vehicle settings are:-
    Dimesnions: 6.50; 2.60; 2.75
    Weights: 3.50; 2.50
    Max. speed: 0
  • BrianEBrianE Posts: 547 [Exalted Navigator]
    YamFazMan wrote: »
    Hi
    @BrianE & @Lost_Soul

    I was reading the User Guide for the early Tomtom Rider device Pre-NAV4 & Nav5 devices
    A slider to choose between Main roads & Country lanes seems a good Idea....
    6a4f1myhz3m4.jpg
    ATB YFM

    Seems like yet another feature that has been taken off us with later models. I wish TomTom would hurry up and get out of reverse gear!
  • Lost_SoulLost_Soul Posts: 299 [Supreme Pioneer]
    @BrianE @YamFazMan

    Re Slider Feature Minor / Major Roads

    I recall having a similar feature on an old Navman from circa 2004 and another Sat Nav (not sure what one) I used you could put the maximum speed on every class of road. It does seem to be a trend to reduce features in later devices............... ;)

    But whether the windy road feature would avoid us all being sent down single track roads is debatable. The underlying reason in my opinion is that some single track roads have a "theoretical speed limit of 60 mph and therefore Tomtom's routing algorithm will calculate that this would result in a quicker journey that an alternative using a 40mph road, but in reality, the theoretical 60mph could be as slow as 20mph for safety.........

    It is clear to me (only using a Go Camper since mid-2019) that Tomtom although they claim on their Go Camper advertising:

    "Whether you drive a car, a large camper or a caravan, get customized routes for your vehicle’s dimensions, weight and maximum speed" in reality this does not occur.

    I have found no evidence to support their claim plus as @BrianE was told:

    "I have discussed this case with our Technical team and I would like to explain you that this is an issue which is under investigation with no current workaround available."

    I think that until they resolve this issue they should delete their marketing claims. =)

    I did find a Petition which was submitted to the Government back in 2014 which sadly (probably due to lack of marketing / awareness) only attracted 86 signatures in the 6 months it was live :'(

    "In rural areas there are narrow single track roads often with passing places. There can be high hedges, blind summits and sharp bends but in nearly all cases the national speed limit of 60 mph applies. These lanes are used by walkers, cyclists and horse riders and often there is little refuge from speeding traffic. The Government is asked to consider amending the national speed limit on such roads to a safer lower speed which could be decided after consultation but should be a maximum of 40 with a prefered speed through villages of 30."

    If this is petition had succeeded I am sure we would see less of the inappropriate "Hawthorn Lane type" routes being offered as the Tomtom routing algorithm would calculate that these routes at 30mph would result in a slower/ longer journey.

    But given that there are some ~30 million cars on the road versus ~200,000 Motorhomes I sadly very much doubt this would ever be achieved.
  • BrianEBrianE Posts: 547 [Exalted Navigator]
    edited February 2020
    I might write to my local MP before the government gets too embroiled in Brexit negotiations and all other government business goes out the window.
  • Lost_SoulLost_Soul Posts: 299 [Supreme Pioneer]
    @BrianE

    Yes, that could be a good idea, I was going to make contact with the NCC to see if they have previously (or could do on behalf of all) lobbied the Government or the Sat Nav manufacturers on this issue.
  • YamFazManYamFazMan Posts: 20,282
    Superusers
    Lost_Soul wrote: »
    @BrianE @YamFazMan
    Re Slider Feature Minor / Major Roads (Snip) But whether the windy road feature would avoid us all being sent down single track roads is debatable.
    It was the use of the Slider method I was suggesting to prioritise the weighting given to Minor or Major Road road types when the route is calculated
    The Winding route option in the example in my post is based around a Motorcycle profile and would not apply for the other vehicle types....
    Lost_Soul wrote: »
    The underlying reason in my opinion is that some single track roads have a "theoretical speed limit of 60 mph and therefore Tomtom's routing algorithm will calculate that this would result in a quicker journey that an alternative using a 40mph road, but in reality, the theoretical 60mph could be as slow as 20mph for safety...
    I think it's safe to say most single track roads have a "theoretical speed limit of 60 mph (Snip)....
    ATB YFM
  • Lost_SoulLost_Soul Posts: 299 [Supreme Pioneer]
    @YamFazMan @BrianE

    Yes, I understood the the Slider method was for a motorcycle, but the underlying methodology might be transferable if the width of roads is known.........

    I deliberately said "some" single track roads as some single track roads locally can go from 60 reducing to 30 then reverting to 60mph as you enter/leave a village ( think you need a minimum of 20 houses / over 600 metres in length to qualify as a village to have the speed restriction!) ;)
  • Lost_SoulLost_Soul Posts: 299 [Supreme Pioneer]
    @BrianE

    Sorry for delayed response as I have only just spotted your reply.

    Just tried it again, using Temeside Way, Powick as the starting point and Crown Lea Avenue, Malvern as the destination and this time it has planned the route through Callow End, along the B4424, then along Clevelode Lane and onto Guarlford Road.
    My current vehicle settings are:-
    Dimesnions: 6.50; 2.60; 2.75
    Weights: 3.50; 2.50
    Max. speed: 0


    With your dimensions set

    Using MyDrive (PC Web based)

    the Malvern Road Route is chosen on Truck, Camper Light and Heavy

    Using my Go 6250

    Truck Callow End route

    Van the Malvern Road

    Using my Go Camper

    Light Camper Malvern Road

    Heavy Camper Callow End


    Hopefully it should only be a few more weeks until a new map is released that possibly could solve this issue ............... :) I am not getting too excited ;)
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