Rider Dock problems

DaveGoochDaveGooch Posts: 10 [Master Traveler]
I had one of the original TomTom Riders, the dock failed, I bought another dock, that failed as well, so I gave up on that and bought a Rider Pro to replace it.

TomTom obviously realised there was a design flaw as they completely changed the dock on the Rider 2/Rider Pro - although I discovered to my cost that they only supplied a passive dock as standard and I had to purchase a powered dock separately. That dock failed - I can't remember if it was once or twice - I had it repaired once by TomTom (it was out of warranty by then) but then eventually the Rider would not charge on the dock - others would so it was not a problem with the dock this time.
I made my concerns known to TomTom, and they offered me a discount on the then new Rider 400, which after much consideration I accepted. This was late 2015.
Now I find that my Rider 400 is only charging intermittently on the dock - it usually powers up as soon as I connect it, but it frequently then decides that power has been cut off and it is going to turn itself off, it is getting to the point where it is almost impossible to use. The problem started quite infrequently a few months ago, but as time has passed it is getting worse - it happens most often when I am accelerating fairly hard - my bike is a BMW R1100S, so as a boxer engine it is a bit vibey, but I would like to think the satnav and/or dock should be able to cope with that.
I have been incredibly loyal to TomTom products over the years, because I like they way they work - while they are working anyway.
Has anyone else had this problem with the dock on the Rider 400 - from the pictures it looks like the same dock design on the current models as well - or is it more likely to be the unit itself? Is there an easy way to check that won't cost me a fortune?
Do I try and get this problem fixed - and hope it is permanent - or do I spend a few hundred pounds on getting another satnav?
And if I get another one, do I risk my money on another TomTom or go to the Garmin?

I apologise for the lengthy post, but I am a little frustrated, to say the least!
If anyone has any helpful ideas or suggestions I would be grateful for them.

Thanks in advance

Best Answer

Answers

  • DaveGoochDaveGooch Posts: 10 [Master Traveler]
    Thanks for the reply, I'll give it a go - I presume you mean dielectric grease? Not something I'm familiar with but Google told me a little bit!
    It is wired so it only has power when the ignition is on. I remove the Rider after every ride, it lives indoors while my bike lives in the garage. I very rarely ride without it, so the dock doesn't get a lot of exposure to the elements.
  • EXPORTMANEXPORTMAN Posts: 634 Superusers
    I have a RT1200 and have travelled 1000's of miles without power issues. I would check that t the problem is not with the power feed to the dock. The ride 1-5 had problems with the power connection into the dock. The new 400-500 series has a fly lead before the power connection from the battery to reduce the issues. As a temporary fix to stop it keep shutting down you can change the power setting. Menu-settings-system-battery. Turn off sleep automatically As you say this was always a problem with the riders 1 & 2 Less so with the 5 but not seen it at all with the 400 and 500 devices
    Born free, now in debt
  • DaveGoochDaveGooch Posts: 10 [Master Traveler]
    Without knowing what the problem is exactly, I'm sure it's caused by vibration. When the problem first started, it would be when I was accelerating hard eg. for an overtake etc - it would come up with the "Power disconnected" message, which would clear when I eased off on the throttle. My concern is that it is happening much more frequently now, even on a light throttle.. I had very recently found the change of settings to Turn of Sleep automatically so I have done that.

    I have it on the same circuit as the aftermarket heated grips - there isn't any issue at that end because the grips still work. I guess there could be a problem with the connector where the power goes into the dock, or it is in the dock itself somewhere, or the Rider itself somewhere. I don't have the equipment (or more importantly the ability/knowledge) to check any of those things.

    I have a dock for the car as well, so I will also try it in the car as this might tell me if the issue is with the Rider or the dock, but my car is less vibey than the bike so the problem might not manifest itself anyway...
  • nickednicnickednic Posts: 1 [New Traveler]
    I have had the same problem and as mine was still under warranty sent it back and it was replaced. As yet problem has not repeated it self.
  • DaveGoochDaveGooch Posts: 10 [Master Traveler]
    nickednic wrote: »
    I have had the same problem and as mine was still under warranty sent it back and it was replaced. As yet problem has not repeated it self.

    I don't suppose they told you what caused the problem, or gave any advice at all? Unfortunately mine is out of warranty now.

    I have tried it in the car with no problems at all. Unfortunately the bike is in the garage having some work done so I don't know yet if putting that grease on has made any difference...
  • DaveGoochDaveGooch Posts: 10 [Master Traveler]
    JoelS. wrote: »
    pins clean ?? try a dab of dielectric on them to see if that helps.
    it sounds like a contact issue between the mount and gps. i had it happen a couple times. easy fix.
    is your mount powered all the time or just key on ?? (i use key on, )


    After reading this, and not having any dialectrric grease, I tried spraying it with WD40, and had a minor improvement.
    I couldn't find anything called dialectric grease locally, but did get some silicon lubricant, (which may or may not be the same thing) and used that. It took a while before I went out on the bike again, but I have now done so, and it is a VAST improvement - it's not 100%, but it probably is 95%, so I've gone from a unit that was virtually unusable and destined for replacement to something that is once again fit for purpose, so thank you very much for the advice.
  • PanunoPanuno Posts: 11 [Master Explorer]
    I have this prolem as well.
    Was fine for about 2 years, now intermittently saying "power disconnected, going into sleep mode". Then 30 seconds it powers on again.
    Can happen several times in a few minutes, then not for hours.
    Mine is a Rider 410, with a new-ish dock that was supplied under warranty when the old one broke.
  • YamFazManYamFazMan Posts: 14,778 Superusers
    edited March 29
    Hi
    @Panuno

    On the NAV4/5 (Wi-Fi) Car device the battery use is up to 1hour... Tomtom recommend charging the device for 2 Hours

    On the NAV4/5 (Wi-Fi) Rider 4xx & 5xx the battery life is up to 6 Hours
    I use a USB Charge Doctor to monitor the Charging of My devices

    beo4kxdgvis7.jpg
    It takes quite a while to fully charge the latest Rider devices...

    Just wondering if people are fully charging their devices

    ATB YFM
    Help others identify useful content...
    If someone posted something that was helpful?
    Click the 'Like' > 👍 Icon
    ____________________________

    If someone answered your question?
    Please answer 'Yes' to Did this answer the question? 'Yes' < >' No'
    ____________________________
  • RoadRiderRoadRider Posts: 216 [Exalted Navigator]
    @YamFazMan when driving I always dock my Rider 550 so it will charge.

    But when I am playing with the device the USB cable is most times not connected.
    I do even most Up-dates over WiFi without the USB cable. Only the maps updates I connect the charger. (and never had any problems updating and I always stay next to the devices)

    Also I always turn of the device and do not use standby. When I see the Rider is less than 35% charged I will charge the device but not 100% but about 60%.

    Why, the worst thing you can do to a Li-ion battery's is drain it.
    It is best to storage around 40% charge..
    And I don't like to connect the charger ;)

    I also have a feature request to extent battery live when the PND is in standby automatically turn off is battery is below 45%.
  • YamFazManYamFazMan Posts: 14,778 Superusers
    edited March 30
    Hi

    I was thinking along the lines of short runs on the bike, the the battery not really recovering, and the charge slowly depreciating over time
    The user only charging the device for a couple of hours... But never really charging the battery for enough time

    ATB YFM
    Help others identify useful content...
    If someone posted something that was helpful?
    Click the 'Like' > 👍 Icon
    ____________________________

    If someone answered your question?
    Please answer 'Yes' to Did this answer the question? 'Yes' < >' No'
    ____________________________
  • PanunoPanuno Posts: 11 [Master Explorer]
    I don't see how that's an issue here though - power is supplied through the 2 pin contacts on the dock/cradle n'est pas? The device doesn't need charging BEFORE it goes on the powered dock - though it's usually stored at around half charge.
    If I switch the auto power-off to off, it will keep on working just fine.
    The issue is intermittent power getting to the unit - and then causing it to cycle on and off.
  • Smart_ContentSmart_Content Posts: 1 [New Seeker]
    This was a solution. The new 400-500 series has a fly lead before the power connection from the battery to reduce the issues.
  • JoelS.JoelS. Posts: 283 [Exalted Navigator]
    Panuno wrote: »
    I don't see how that's an issue here though - power is supplied through the 2 pin contacts on the dock/cradle n'est pas? The device doesn't need charging BEFORE it goes on the powered dock - though it's usually stored at around half charge.
    If I switch the auto power-off to off, it will keep on working just fine.
    The issue is intermittent power getting to the unit - and then causing it to cycle on and off.

    you have a pin issue, needs cleaning, i have had and corrected that as well.
    cleaned the pins on the mount, cleaned the contacts on the gps, added a dielectric grease, or conductive grease. i have also mounted the gps, then pulled back the locking tab, that releases the gps. leave the gps mounted, just pull the tab back and release it, it sinn snap a bit on the back of the gps, once again making better pin contact.
  • PanunoPanuno Posts: 11 [Master Explorer]
    Yep - it's definitely the contact pins, but not a dirt/cleaning issue per se.
    Got the mount off the bike, and compring the pins with the ones on my unused car mount that came with the premium kit.
    The pin height on the bike dock is sitting at approximately half the height of the new pins on the car dock. Additionally, the gold plating on the pin sides has worn away, and there is a lot more lateral movement in the pins.
    So....wear, and some debris from the plating (and weak springs..) are causing stiction in the sliding pins. Hence the loss of power and contact.
    Next step is to dis-assemble the dock and see if I can tweak things.

    Oh, and everyone who's saying dielectric grease.....it's an insulator FFS.....
  • JoelS.JoelS. Posts: 283 [Exalted Navigator]
    edited April 3
    Panuno wrote: »
    ..........
    Oh, and everyone who's saying dielectric grease.....it's an insulator FFS.....

    really, well you can continue to kick rocks, best to you
    once the pins are making contact, it will seal and protect them,

    since you have been fighting this for 2 years, lol i thought a tip might help.
    mine acted up once or twice, cleaned, sealed, never happened again.




  • JoelS.JoelS. Posts: 283 [Exalted Navigator]
    misread,
    Was fine for about 2 years, now intermittently saying "power disconnected, going into sleep mode". Then 30 seconds it powers on again.

    sorry, unable to edit my other post
  • PanunoPanuno Posts: 11 [Master Explorer]
    Tips are always welcome Joel, and I do appreciate when people take time to provide advice, even if I seem a bit grumpy.
    It was just the recommendation of a 'dielectric' grease that I took umbrage with, as a dielectric is an insulator and the very last thing you would want smeared over electrical contacts.

    An update to the tweaking - dock was stripped down, and the small circuit board with the pins was washed in Isopropyl alcohol, and then given a few minutes in my ultrasonic cleaner. Then thoroughly dried out with compressed air and then sitting over a radiator.
    It's even more clear that the springs in the pogo pins are weakened and fatigued (vibration from the bike and the roads perhaps?), and will set in various height positions, but only ever sit at no more than about half the height of pins on the unused car dock - 0.79mm vs 1.5mm. This should still be adequate to make a normal contact in a static setting, but the weak springs are clearly causing a disconnect when subject to transferred vibrations and bumps.

    Incidentally the pins are just sitting through a plastic housing/guide on the board, and then connected with a small dab of solder on the bottom. Replacing them would be quite simple once the right size replacement pin was found (I've looked at loads so far..), and the pins can be bought for as little as 50p/€0.58.
    It's just finding the right one.....

    Pics of pins on rider dock and unused car dock

    s9g30kmf8zlk.jpg

    2gob098t9p1d.jpg

  • YamFazManYamFazMan Posts: 14,778 Superusers
    Hi
    @Panuno

    The pins on my Rider 550... Car & Bike Mount both 1.5mm

    ATB YFM
    Help others identify useful content...
    If someone posted something that was helpful?
    Click the 'Like' > 👍 Icon
    ____________________________

    If someone answered your question?
    Please answer 'Yes' to Did this answer the question? 'Yes' < >' No'
    ____________________________
  • mikicommikicom Posts: 1 [New Seeker]
    DaveGooch wrote:
    "The problem started quite infrequently a few months ago, but as time has passed it is getting worse - it happens most often when I am accelerating fairly hard - my bike is a BMW R1100S, so as a boxer engine it is a bit vibey, …."


    I have this very same experience. My nav device is about 2 years old Rider 450 and bike is vibing Honda NT700 V2. Problem started last summer and is getting worse. Soon I connected this problem very often to accelarating. Sometimes the problem disappears for a hole day and sometimes it is on continuosly. When reading this discussion i have come to conclusion that the dock is too weak and will worn unusefull in 1 or 2 years. I think that must buy on new "pinplate" for the dock (60e) !
  • DaveGoochDaveGooch Posts: 10 [Master Traveler]
    mikicom wrote: »
    DaveGooch wrote:
    "The problem started quite infrequently a few months ago, but as time has passed it is getting worse - it happens most often when I am accelerating fairly hard - my bike is a BMW R1100S, so as a boxer engine it is a bit vibey, …."


    I have this very same experience. My nav device is about 2 years old Rider 450 and bike is vibing Honda NT700 V2. Problem started last summer and is getting worse. Soon I connected this problem very often to accelarating. Sometimes the problem disappears for a hole day and sometimes it is on continuosly. When reading this discussion i have come to conclusion that the dock is too weak and will worn unusefull in 1 or 2 years. I think that must buy on new "pinplate" for the dock (60e) !

    As I said above, yes my problem was largely caused by vibration, particularly under acceleration and later on almost all the time, but it was VASTLY improved after spraying the contacts with silicon lubricant. I understand the arguments about silicon being an insulator, I can't explain it, but it worked for me.
Sign In or Register to comment.

Who's Online9

4Qts
4Qts
+8 Guests