Bandit- External Mic for motorcycle helmet use - Page 3 — TomTom Community

Bandit- External Mic for motorcycle helmet use

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Comments

  • CPGCPG Posts: 48 [Prominent Wayfarer]
    The Bandit gives 2.46 volts open circuit, I have just posted a letter to TomTom asking for details of the Bandits requirements for a microphone.
    https://en.discussions.tomtom.com/tomtom-bandit-action-camera-477/tomtom-bandit-external-microphone-audio-problems-999889
  • firepete999firepete999 Posts: 12 [Outstanding Explorer]
    Tried mine again mounted on side of car with waterproof lense.audio just picks up rattling from mounting. And this was just with engine running car not moving
  • firepete999firepete999 Posts: 12 [Outstanding Explorer]
    Also seems to pick up rattle with external Mic fitted.
  • pjsmithpjsmith Posts: 38 [Prominent Wayfarer]
    CPG wrote:
    The Bandit gives 2.46 volts open circuit, I have just posted a letter to TomTom asking for details of the Bandits requirements for a microphone.
    https://en.discussions.tomtom.com/tomtom-bandit-action-camera-477/tomtom-bandit-external-microphone-audio-problems-999889

    That's great info. Thanks. I'd missed that post. Gives a lot more scope to try different mics. It would be nice if TomTom could confirm all this, officially.
  • CPGCPG Posts: 48 [Prominent Wayfarer]
    I’ve fitted a potential divider network of two resistors, I have a 10K in series with mic signal to Bandit and a 10K to 'return' (i.e. across the bandit mic input). This gives approximately 50% attenuation. There is some clipping in parts but no way near as bad as it was. Obviously the BEST solution would be from TomTom.
    5th Audio Test:
  • NunquamNunquam Posts: 49 [Outstanding Wayfarer]
    Thanks
    A definite improvement. I am in Portugal at the moment so more used to driving on the right!
    Thanks for your work. I hope Tom Tom reimburse you !!
    If there is a easy, plug in fix, then that would be good.
    Patrick
  • CPGCPG Posts: 48 [Prominent Wayfarer]
    Was considering give the MyMyk SportsMyk a go:

    http://www.mymyk.com/index.php/sportsmyk/

    It gets good review when used with a gopro, its designed to be used for action cams to reduce wind noise, anyone given it ago?

    The spec of this mic seems to conform to the Bandits requirements:
    General Specification

    Microphone Capsule: Back Electret Condenser
    Pick up Pattern: Omnidirectional
    Frequency Response: 20Hz – 20Khz
    Sensitivity: 45dB ±3dB(0dB=1v/pa at 1KHz)
    Output Impedance: 1KΩ±30%
    Power requirement: 1.5-10V DC

    I am defiantly considering this but at the price I would like TomTom's opinion on whether it would be suitable for there camera.
  • BobspBobsp Posts: 6 [Master Explorer]
    I am following this thread with interest. I, as nost of us here, am fed up with what is a good camera, but for the sound issues.

    The lack of input from Tom Tom is also terrible to say the least. I called them again today, only to get nowhere, as the person I spoke to didnt know about any sound issues.

    I am thinking of returning my camera, as I really need ot for a trip at the end of April.
  • GlenavyManGlenavyMan Posts: 8 [Legendary Explorer]
    Dammit I was just about to push the button on an order for a Bandit, as Jessops in the UK have a deal for the premium pack at the moment. However my goal is making motorcycle vids and vlogs in Ireland. The editing software looks great but if it's impossible to get audio... Well done pjsmith and CPG taking the time to make the vids to demo the problem.

    I wish TomTom would come back with an answer or recommended solutions.
  • Militant AsianMilitant Asian Posts: 15 [Outstanding Wayfarer]
    GlenavyMan wrote:
    Dammit I was just about to push the button on an order for a Bandit, as Jessops in the UK have a deal for the premium pack at the moment. However my goal is making motorcycle vids and vlogs in Ireland. The editing software looks great but if it's impossible to get audio... Well done pjsmith and CPG taking the time to make the vids to demo the problem.

    I wish TomTom would come back with an answer or recommended solutions.

    They know of the issue and are working on a fix is the official response at the moment. Until they sort it, nothing much you can do.
  • NunquamNunquam Posts: 49 [Outstanding Wayfarer]
    I am going to try Bose quiet comfort ear phones, mainly to see how good the noise cancelling is , but very expensive. I think they have a mic, but I am not sure if this will make any difference to the external mic problems with the bandit camera. The Bose earphones should arrive within 4 days. If they are good I will post. I don't know how to post on U tube, my grand son at university , so I may perhaps try to get one of my son's to help.
  • ReprobateReprobate Posts: 30 [Outstanding Wayfarer]
    Chris wrote:
    Hi BikerRob and pjsmith, I have been through this and the other thread started by fearoffish, to be able to investigate this further I need some more information. Can you please let me know:

    What external microphones you are using (which cause you an issue)
    Your own experiences when using the external microphone
    The link to a video you have created with an example of the audio issue

    This issue of helmet microphones is killing the product buzz for me. The external microphone cable you offer for the camera is WAY TOO LONG. You do not offer a quality microphone like GO PRO does. A short lead to a quality microphone would be ideal as would a rechargeable blue tooth unit. This helmet microphone oversight along with the limited application features on android phones is really denting your stance in the market. Please fix this!

    So far I only know the Mics being used by fearoffish (Olympus ME 52/Speedlink Spes), XennoNL (Generic clip on microphone) and Nunquam (Olympus ME 52).

    Also fearoffish is the only one to so far provide a video clip which shows the issue, so the more the better.

    This issue of helmet microphones is killing the product buzz for me. The external microphone cable you offer for the camera is WAY TOO LONG. You do not offer a quality microphone like GO PRO does. A short lead to a quality microphone would be ideal as would a rechargeable blue tooth unit. This helmet microphone oversight along with the limited application features on android phones is really denting your stance in the market. Please fix this!
  • ReprobateReprobate Posts: 30 [Outstanding Wayfarer]
    CPG wrote:
    I’ve fitted a potential divider network of two resistors, I have a 10K in series with mic signal to Bandit and a 10K to 'return' (i.e. across the bandit mic input). This gives approximately 50% attenuation. There is some clipping in parts but no way near as bad as it was. Obviously the BEST solution would be from TomTom.
    5th Audio Test:

    Dude, you ROCK! This awesome but angers me as I do not understand why we (you in this case) the customer are doing critical R&D for TomTom! This should have been part of the prototyping, testing and marketing packages:@!
  • ReprobateReprobate Posts: 30 [Outstanding Wayfarer]



    This issue of helmet microphones is killing the product buzz for me. The external microphone cable you offer for the camera is WAY TOO LONG. You do not offer a quality microphone like GO PRO does. A short lead to a quality microphone would be ideal as would a rechargeable blue tooth unit. This helmet microphone oversight along with the limited application features on android phones is really denting your stance in the market. Please fix this!
  • ReprobateReprobate Posts: 30 [Outstanding Wayfarer]
    pjsmith wrote:
    As promised, I made a sample video today that shows the audio issue with an external Neweer lavalier microphone. This mic is mounted in the cheek piece inside the helmet, with both a fur and foam cover. I've tried a couple different locations for it. It's the best audio I have from it so far. The helmet has a neck wind guard and I tested visor up and down. Max speed in this test is 35mph and the actual winds are very light today. Filmed in 1080/30 mode.



    I hope you have the patience to sit through this video and read all this (product dev really should as it's a good example of why Bikers/Vloggers, a large market, are NOT going to use this product). I have to admit, today was my most frustrating time with the camera so far. I wanted to ensure the firmware was the latest before any testing and it did update this morning before the ride from the mobile app. However, the camera would not stay recording. It kept going to sleep by itself during the ride. It never did this before today. I did format the SD card before the test to ensure it was clean. It is the same card I have used in the camera without issue since I got it.

    So, you probably missed many of my ramblings, which may be for the best :)

    Here is a summary of my feedback/issues with the camera. This is after just a few hours of usage. Some of it just feedback for new products, some are bugs that should be fixed in the current software/firmware. I also describe some frustrations during the ride.

    Most important - Audio levels appear too sensitive and peak out very easily. There is no mic gain adjustment or wind noise filters in the unit as there is with most other higher end action cameras (ghost, garmin ), so this can only be addressed by finding a compatible microphone for your purpose. A next to impossible task given the variety available and the lack of any testing/compatibility list from TomTom. Even without the wind, you can hear the voice audio at the start clip.

    SD card issues - When I got the camera and used it the first time (with a brand new SD card), it would stop recording after 5-10 minutes with a 'check SD card' message. After trying a few things, I found that formatting the card in the camera seemed to resolve the issue and I did not get the issue again. The specific card I used "SanDisk Ultra 64 GB microSDXC Memory Card plus SD Adapter up to 80 MB/s, Class 10 FFP". Purchased direct from Amazon to avoid any 'fake' issues. Others in the forum also experienced this. Format is an easy fix, but I'm not sure if the problem has returned today as the camera did keep stopping recording. I understand 4k to video cards can be difficult, but this happened to me on 1080p/30 too.

    Camera fault - Critical issue and new, perhaps due to the new firmware today - For the first time, the unit kept stopping recording by itself. It'd be recording, then beep-beep-beep, then when I check the camera, it's gone to sleep. It's mounted on my helmet, so no idea if it had come up with any message as I cannot see the display. It seemed to do this at random intervals today, a lot. At least 4-5 times in a 40 minute period, meaning most of my video was lost. I'd be really miffed if that happened on my tour. I'd not experienced this so far, but I have probably only used the camera for 10 hours or so. I have read in the forum of this happening to others.

    App - As can be seen at the start, the android app kept crashing on me today. Not experienced this before but also only really played with this a little inside prior, but it was useless today. Started recording from the app, less than a minute later, app crashes, camera stopped. I sent the crash reports. The release notes from the new firmware say wifi coms with the camera are improved, but this is the worst I ever experienced with it today, by far.

    Design - Format for helmets is great, but rattling audio / shaky video due to the rear mount sloppy tolerances, which TomTom already know about. Can be fudge fixed, but really. It's a £400 camera with a couple options added... Mine has been fudged for this clip.

    Bug - Camera forgets you have selected external mic in the settings every time it is turned off/resets, so you set off on your bike with no audio. This setting should be memorised between resets. I've seen this mentioned elsewhere, but several firmware updates later, it's still an issue it seems. Gutting to film great clips and discover no audio as you have the waterproof lens on.

    Video White Balance - As can be seen in the video, the camera white balance could do with some work. Most of the street sides in this video, most things in shadow/shade are completely black with no detail. Not at all what they look like at the time, which is really light shade. It's over compensating for the sky even though I'm not riding into the sun.

    In order to troubleshoot a couple of these issues further I took the camera out on the bicycle. I found that the issues could be replicated in that, with wifi on, in live view, if you start recording via the phone the app crashes within 60 seconds and the camera stops recording. I sent the crash reports/logs. After replicating this a couple times I reset the camera, left wifi off and continued testing. Also experienced the camera stop recording about 10 minutes into the test. The only thing I saw on the LCD was the timer rotating, just as if I'd pressed the stop button, but I had not. The only difference (not 100% about this) is I cannot recall the timer being above the rotating timer when it did this which it normally is if you press stop. I could just hit record and it would start again. Did not experience this again. Later, at home, I tested the camera with the wifi and time lapse mode. It did not crash. Seems to only be with live video recording it does this.

    For V2, a little digital image stabilisation and bluetooth audio would be nice, but stability and reliability is needed first!

    I'm guessing some of this can be fixed in firmware/software, some are hardware issues that perhaps you will consider for v2. This is a hell of a first go at a decent action camera. TomTom almost got it. Perhaps with a few firmware updates, they'd almost be there.

    I would say the service, both on the phone and via this forum appears to be good. Still have high hopes these issues can be resolved, but perhaps not in time for the purpose I purchased the camera. Shame as it would be a good advert for the bandit. Over 5k miles/3 months of crossing Europe on the bike, all on YouTube.

    I'm an IT engineer/software developer by trade - Ran an IT firm for a long time. If you need to test any BETA firmware / software to see if it helps address any of these issues, I'd be happy to try it.

    Paul.

    TomTom! Are you even listening to this guy? You should be!
  • BikerRobBikerRob Posts: 29 [Prominent Wayfarer]
    Hi Reprobate,

    I was an early buyer of this Bandit and loved the design behind it. Video-quality was great. As I progressed with shooting video's the obvious next step was vlogging. I never came around to that. I started several topic long time ago, have send idea's to TomTom (using the bleutooth was mentioned a year ago) and still no development. I admire some guys who keep trying to make this Bandit work as it should but that is up to TomTom, not their customers. So after 14 months I gave up on my Bandit, bought myself a 120 euro action cam with external mic support and I shoot great quality video WITH fantastic sound.
    I wish that one day TomTom will listen to the remarks on this forum and take their customers not for granted.
  • ChrisChris Posts: 934 Retired Community Managers and Staff
    Hi BikerRob, we are listening, apologies if we have given the impression we haven't, we have been testing and looking at the Moto Vlogging issues reported here, I have also asked a couple of users from here to test a new Software Update with gain controls, based on their feedback and suggestions we could release this publicly in the near future.
  • BikerRobBikerRob Posts: 29 [Prominent Wayfarer]
    Hello Chris,

    Thank you for your reply. I didn't know your company is working at these problems now (perhaps many like myself don't know about this). When you take a look at PJSMITH comments (Reprobate mentioned his comments in his) then the Bandit has a lot of issues I can relate too. So in general the idea behind the Bandit is fantastic (which I posted a long time ago) with great video quality and fantastic battery-life. The Bandit had the potential to beat many others, but in my view you "missed the boat". There are several (cheaper) action cams which can be attached very flat to a helmet with a build-in socket for an external microphone which works great. As a Dutchman I decided to go for a Dutch product, but my decision was not a good one. In my opinion all these issues should have been taken care off after more then a year and so many users posting their comments here. Too bad ..... an opportunity missed !!!
  • ReprobateReprobate Posts: 30 [Outstanding Wayfarer]
    Chris wrote:
    Hi BikerRob, we are listening, apologies if we have given the impression we haven't, we have been testing and looking at the Moto Vlogging issues reported here, I have also asked a couple of users from here to test a new Software Update with gain controls, based on their feedback and suggestions we could release this publicly in the near future.

    Chris, this is great news. Is there currently a projected time or date on when some of these upgrades could be available? right now, I cannot Moto Vlog and that is incredibly frustrating.

    "All I want are some gain controls and a good compact mic!"
  • ChrisChris Posts: 934 Retired Community Managers and Staff
    Hi Reprobate, we have a Software Update for the Bandit every couple of months, when the users testing this are happy with the test software we can add it to one of the next updates, if it doesn't meet their needs then we need to look at this again, so it's not possible to say when we will release it. Best case scenario the test build passes with flying colours and we add it to the next release, if not then we keep testing and release as soon as possible. Next Software Update is pencilled in for the end of the month.
  • NunquamNunquam Posts: 49 [Outstanding Wayfarer]
    Slightly more acceptable clip using JK mic
  • GlenavyManGlenavyMan Posts: 8 [Legendary Explorer]
    Good work Nunquam. Despite the problems discussed on this forum I went ahead and ordered my Bandit and I love the thing! So far no vlogging tho. The JK mic you highlight is pretty good. Any word from TomTom regarding a software update with mic gain control?
  • NunquamNunquam Posts: 49 [Outstanding Wayfarer]
    GlenavyMan; Tom Tom gave me a link to have 4 auto settings, auto, plus 40, plus 20, plus 10 and plus zero. I have been trying them out with various mics. I expect the clever people at Tom tom are trying to improve the audio. It would be good if a software fix is possible. I think if I record some of my trip to Portugal, it will be mainly video and only a bit of audio, perhaps I just have to go S L O W L Y.
  • GlenavyManGlenavyMan Posts: 8 [Legendary Explorer]
    Hi Nunquam: do you mean that you have a new software version with audio gain control? TomTom provided it to you so that you can 'beta-test' ? If so, cool! It's also good to learn that they are working in this.
  • Frenzy382Frenzy382 Posts: 33 [Outstanding Explorer]
    I hope the settings are not just for external mics....I can't use an external mic, as I need the power lead in the back. They didn't think of people needing both.
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