Multisports- Current pace vs average pace completely off - Page 7 — TomTom Community

Multisports- Current pace vs average pace completely off

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  • gl00gl00 Posts: 965 [Revered Pioneer]
    actually, it's not so much that it's not updated fast enough, it's the algorithm they use to apply smoothing that's a bit odd: actually, instant pace is super responsive if you change pace drastically (try doing slow/fast 30/30 secs intervals and you'll see the pace stabilize after 10-15s, which is actually very good in comparison to my other watches from other brands... a suunto ambit 2 will actually never give you your actual pace under such circumstances...) but while it's good at that, it also fails at detecting change of pace below 1mn/km and applies way too much smoothing, so much the point that it sometimes would just get stuck in a pace zone when we are actually running a completely different pace... hence my solution up there to change pace even more drastically: this really does shake the watch out of the pace it's stuck at and it would then work as expected for a little while... <BR /><BR />it's definitely a coding failure, but might be very difficult to impossible to sort if this behaviour is linked to the biking mode for example... not saying we all have to give up hope that this issue will ever be fixed but i ve been here for over a year now: tomtom has implemented whole new functions on the watch, but never fixed this, which was one of the first issues detected...<BR />
  • Johngl85Johngl85 Posts: 10 [Outstanding Explorer]
    I can see why the multi sport watch may have that smoothing issue for runners. But wouldn't the runner edition have smoothing done accordingly, to pick up subtle changes in pace?
  • theRattheRat Posts: 99 [Prominent Wayfarer]
    It is not impossible to fix as the instant pace works perfectly in 'Freestyle' mode, it changes almost too quickly. Simon
  • gl00gl00 Posts: 965 [Revered Pioneer]
    hmmm interesting theRat... that may be a reason for me to try the freestyle mode :-p (I never use it...) I really thought it was a clone of the run mode, but apparently it does Kcal calculation via HR and maybe has a different way to calculate pace? hmmmm... I really wish tomtom said a little more about what the updates change...
  • gl00gl00 Posts: 965 [Revered Pioneer]
    Johngl85: only people responsible for coding the smoothing algorithm can give a clear answer about that i fear... but what I do know is that the multisport and runner watches share the same firmware, the only difference is that some functions are disabled on the runner...
  • theRattheRat Posts: 99 [Prominent Wayfarer]
    gl00, the freestyle mode defaults to display speed, but you can change it to pace. The good thing is you only have to do this once.  I use freestyle a lot as I wear the watch while playing Ultimate regularly.

    I think the only way to get TomTom's attention is to log support jobs with their CS as then it is harder for them to ignore them.  Mind you you still don't get much feedback and everytime they close one of my tickets which hasn't been resolved I reopen it.

    To my surprise I actually got a phone call from them to discuss my issues which have now been passed to the developers.

    Maybe everyone should log a support case referring to this thread instead of just complaining amongst ourselves.

    Simon
  • chrissnnchrissnn Posts: 8 [Legendary Explorer]
    I emailed Tomtom, and as a reaction I have been told the issue is forwarded to the developers. I also was advised to use speed in stead of pace, because speed is updated more frequently on the watch. I'm going to try it tonight, although I still wish pace will be fixed soon.

    Edit: i could not find the speed information on my watch. Anyone?

    Edit 2: found the option in display setting before starting a run. Speed indeed is more accurate but still I hope Tomtom will fix pace, that is what I'm used to.
  • bravitbravit Posts: 2 [Apprentice Traveler]
    I've just bought my tomtom runner and I've in my first run with him, I've had the same problem: The current pace info is not accurate at all! I've run all the first km with a pace under 6:40 minutes/km and the average pace was 7:07! I'm completely disappointed and even more, after reading this topic, saying that the problem was not solved yet, although there is complains since one year ago. I'm really thinking about returning the watch, as this was the information I was really looking for when I choose the tomtom runner to buy, because I've been running during 3 years with a app (nike running) and this is the info I most missing in it.
    I don't know if anyone knows if TOMTOM is really looking for a solution for this problem.
    Thanks
  • WillCWWillCW Posts: 584 [Renowned Wayfarer]
    bravit wrote:
    I've just bought my tomtom runner and I've in my first run with him, I've had the same problem: The current pace info is not accurate at all! I've run all the first km with a pace under 6:40 minutes/km and the average pace was 7:07! I'm completely disappointed and even more, after reading this topic, saying that the problem was not solved yet, although there is complains since one year ago. I'm really thinking about returning the watch, as this was the information I was really looking for when I choose the tomtom runner to buy, because I've been running during 3 years with a app (nike running) and this is the info I most missing in it.
    I don't know if anyone knows if TOMTOM is really looking for a solution for this problem.
    Thanks

    We all would hope that the current-pace problem is near the top of TT's list to be dealt with in the next watch firmware release. But they do not publish what or when; we have to (continue to) wait and see. :?
  • AnnelysMAnnelysM Posts: 5 [Master Explorer]
    Same problem here. I've got the watch mainly to maintain control over my pace, if it can't deliver an accurate pace is pretty much useless. Last update was in October, what are they waiting for?
  • chrissnnchrissnn Posts: 8 [Legendary Explorer]
  • WillCWWillCW Posts: 584 [Renowned Wayfarer]
    AnnelysM wrote:
    Same problem here. I've got the watch mainly to maintain control over my pace, if it can't deliver an accurate pace is pretty much useless. Last update was in October, what are they waiting for?
    The TT firmware revision is much the same as the current pace algorithm -- very slow to update. Come on TomTom.
  • BOC1BOC1 Posts: 1 [Apprentice Traveler]
    Overall I have been happy with my Tomtom multisport watch. I had switched from a Garmin when glitches during a race required an upgrade. I have experienced issues with metrics in pool swimming although didn't expect perfection, learned that the interval feature is mostly useless for track work-outs. However, my most pressing concern is that I seem to now be experiencing serious issues with actual pace. I read through a number of the comments on this thread (which goes back a year), but don't see commentary from Tomtom on what the issue is, and what's being done. My uploads on mobile seem to be slower than when they first came out with the Android App (separate issue), but has anyone experienced the degradation that I am seeing or did your watches just come like that?

    Pace readings for me didn't seem to be off over the last year that I have had mine, but in the last three runs, I am seeing the actual pace off by about 30 seconds, I know it's off because the mile average alert was different, and because I was running a race. Nice to have a finish faster than what your actual pace seems to indicate, but totally unreliable for pacing and training... but surprised that the watch is performing worse and not better.
  • tfarabaughtfarabaugh Posts: 16,681
    Superusers
    BOC1 wrote:
    Overall I have been happy with my Tomtom multisport watch. I had switched from a Garmin when glitches during a race required an upgrade. I have experienced issues with metrics in pool swimming although didn't expect perfection, learned that the interval feature is mostly useless for track work-outs. However, my most pressing concern is that I seem to now be experiencing serious issues with actual pace. I read through a number of the comments on this thread (which goes back a year), but don't see commentary from Tomtom on what the issue is, and what's being done. My uploads on mobile seem to be slower than when they first came out with the Android App (separate issue), but has anyone experienced the degradation that I am seeing or did your watches just come like that?

    Pace readings for me didn't seem to be off over the last year that I have had mine, but in the last three runs, I am seeing the actual pace off by about 30 seconds, I know it's off because the mile average alert was different, and because I was running a race. Nice to have a finish faster than what your actual pace seems to indicate, but totally unreliable for pacing and training... but surprised that the watch is performing worse and not better.

    I am not sure why you are suddenly seeing a degradation in accuracy. I have not experienced it and haven't heard anything on the forums. Your best bet is to do a factory reset which will restore the watch to a clean slate with the latest firmware. If there is a glitch in the programming causing the degradation this would get rid of it.
  • OorafuOorafu Posts: 2 [Apprentice Traveler]
    Hi All,

    Since 3 days I am new Tom Tom Multisport Cardio owner. Decided on it because of: 1) HRM on wrists (works like a charm), 2) swimming (not tested yet) and... pace control which is totally useless - got simillar experience like most of you: pace in running mode changes to slow, sometimes I need to stop running for a second and than run again to refresh it... I tried freestyle mode like someone suggested but it's changing like crazy there and in general quite often giving way lower pace than it is.

    When I check up the quality of GPS data in endomondo it looks like it work like a charm but current pace is just messed on watch programming side. I am bit shocked that product with such potential is made worthles for a year because such (lets face it) BUG.

    IMHO the only chance for us is to talk about it louder on social media like facebook, g+, twitter etc. Looks like forums and tickets doesnt help here. Pitty... besides that problem watch is great so far but current pace disability makes me frustated and thinking about selling it or trying to give back to store because of hidden bug.

    Let's make it loud.
  • NvRNvR Posts: 5 [Master Explorer]
    Can anyone tell me if this is the same problem with the current speed?
    On my watch the speed is never accurate. I don't use pace.
    I think a basic utility for a running watch.
  • WillCWWillCW Posts: 584 [Renowned Wayfarer]
    NvR wrote:
    Can anyone tell me if this is the same problem with the current speed?
    On my watch the speed is never accurate. I don't use pace.
    I think a basic utility for a running watch.
    Er, yes. This thread will run and run (excuse the pun) until TT issue a firmware upgrade that improves the smoothing algorithm for current pace. It is an issue that all such GPS-sports have but some appear to have come up with more effective algorithms. Come on TomTom.
  • NvRNvR Posts: 5 [Master Explorer]
    It's a pity
  • jamminbjamminb Posts: 4 [Master Traveler]
    It's insane that this is still an issue. It can't be too hard to fix, as the speed displays fairly quickly in cycling mode and that is using all the same data inputs.

    The only explanations for this not being fixed are
    a) they don't care enough to fix it
    b) the guy who knows how to fix it has left or is working on a new product development
    c) all of the above
  • chrissnnchrissnn Posts: 8 [Legendary Explorer]
    Couldn't agree more. I'm going to try to return the watch. It's worthless.
  • OorafuOorafu Posts: 2 [Apprentice Traveler]
    Only workaround that I could find so far is running in laps mode - set it for 200/250 meters or 1/2 minutes. There will be Average lap pace option on the screens. It's a workaround, bit annoying but perhaps can help some of others too.
  • NvRNvR Posts: 5 [Master Explorer]
    With 1.8.34 it seems slightly better.
    Or is this just wishful thinking?!
  • eric1reric1r Posts: 6 [Master Explorer]
    Yes, current pace data is nearly useless on these watches. Before I was fully aware of this problem I made the mistake of recommending TT's to my wife, her son and a coworker - mainly due to the slick integrated wrist HR monitor. So we now own four TT cardio watches in total and we all have the same complaint. The instant pace readout takes nearly two minutes to update after a change in pace is made. The only time it's close is on long runs where you are maintaining a constant pace over a long period in time as in a half or full marathon. For speed work and interval workouts it's garbage. We bought these watches to serve two purposes - to display heart rate and to display current pace. Unfortunately it only serves one of these purposes.

    So now I have two family members and one close friend who think I'm an idiot for recommending this product to them. I originally told them to be patient and that tomtom is constantly updating the software and that it would only be a matter of time before they fixed this simple issue. Now I'm beginning to think that I'm an idiot for believing that.

    It can't possibly be that hard to solve this issue. Instead of averaging/smoothing current pace data over a two minute period why not try averaging over 15 seconds, or even 30 seconds. All my buddies have Garmins and when I run with them they don't have this issue. So apparently they (Garmin) has current pace figured out. I get tired of asking my running buddies what pace we are running at. But for some reason they don't get tired of laughing and telling me to go buy a real watch.

    At least I do get to make fun of their HR chest straps...
  • LittoinenLittoinen Posts: 23 [Outstanding Explorer]
    Too bad that otherwise good product has such a BUG. Yesterday I started new 10k training program and (desperately) tried to use pace. Just a brief sprint over the road will mess up the pace for a minute or so... completely unacceptable.

    After my workout I did a brief run with speed instead of pace. That seemed to work much better. I have to try that on my next exercise.

    TT: Please fix this, I have spent a lot of €uros to the watch and it's bike sensor!!
  • LittoinenLittoinen Posts: 23 [Outstanding Explorer]
    Speed seems to be updated much better than pace. Not perfect but can be even used. You just have to do some math and convert speed to pace. I have a MultiSport (not cardio) with latest software and recently done factory reset.

    Strange that calculating pace can be so much harder than speed.. must be some TT mathematics! :)

    .
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