Multisports- Current pace vs average pace completely off - Page 2 — TomTom Community

Multisports- Current pace vs average pace completely off

2456789

Comments

  • AntonioAraujoAntonioAraujo Posts: 7 [Master Explorer]
    Hi,

    I have also exposed this situation by e-mail to TomTom Support Team ([email protected])...

    I e-mail this:

    "I have the TomTom MultiSports (Product ID HC...) and I feel disapointed with an issue like a lot of runners that is discussing in the forums.
    There are a lot of people talking about the laggy of the instant pace on TT. This issue really metters for me as for all the runners because when you run long distances you don't have a way to know the exact and real pace (minutes per kilometer) on real time. This is a real problem that has to be fixed because it turns the watch unuseful for runners...
    I have already made a test with two more friends with Garmin watches and the pace on their watches was the same and in my Tom Tom i felt that the pace was not the "real pace" i was running...
    Is this a bug that will be fixed or we just have to accept it?
    Is TomTom Staff aware of this issue? How can we report it to the experts?"

     

    They answered this:

    "Thank you for your email about the issue you are having with the delay in the instant pace on your Multi- Sports watch.

     We have had feed back about this issue from runners such as yourself and it is feature that we are working on improving in forthcoming software releases." 

     

    So, I hope I TomTom can fix it in future releases. It's important that TomTom work on this problem because it's the most important one for runners.

    I think that everyone of you that are disappointed about something in the watch should send an e-mail to the TomTom Support Team or other superior instance so they should start to think more seriously about this problems.

     

    Best regards.
  • Skels5Skels5 Posts: 4 [Neophyte Traveler]
    Hi Guys

    Yes I have this problem too
    I previously used a Nike TomTom Sportswatch which had the same problem.
    Compared to other watches it would typically show the current pace as much as 25 seconds faster per km
    There were many complaints to Nike which went nowhere
    ( Note: poor customer service means I won't be buying any more Nike products ever)

    After the Nike watch died in December I thought I would try the TomTom as I like the basic concept ( large chars) 

    This watch is not quite as bad as the Nike. Its faster by roughly 15 seconds per km
    So TomTom have done some work in this area but still haven't got it right yet

    For me this is a big issue when trying to hit a goal time in races

    Come on TomTom, step up and prove you listen to customers

    keep on running
  • bennywbennyw Posts: 1 [Apprentice Traveler]
    I also have noticed this issue, I was sure that it has actually worsened since the last software update. I monitored my current pace over a 45min run and it was mostly sub 5min and never read above a 5:09/km pace, yet I knew this wasn't true and indeed my average pace was actually  5:14. It is often about 30sec out. This is so frustrating, I only bought the tomtom watch because I trusted the brand after using a Nike+ watch (using gps and footpod worked well for me). 
  • rodnogalrodnogal Posts: 8 [Legendary Explorer]
    I agree. It is happening after the last update. I hadn't pace issues before
  • AG22AG22 Posts: 1 [Apprentice Traveler]
    I have the same issue.

    It's actually worse than long averaging.

    Yesterday I did my usual run. At one there are stairs and thena section uphill and I go very slow so my pace went down. I recovered after a while and got back to my pace but the watch was still showin the slow pace. After some time the pace actually jumped from 6 to 4: I just happened to look at the watch at that point.

    This is crazy and very annoying!

    I hope TT can fix it...

    Thanks!
  • WaltertBWaltertB Posts: 5 [Master Explorer]
    Same for me.

    As long as you keep a reasonably equal pace, you can work with it, although still annoying. For interval it's just useless. If I would accelerate from 5:00min/km to 4:30min/km, the pace displayed would "crawl" towards the actual new pace over a period of 30-60 seconds. Same on deceleration. Meaning you never know what your actual new pace is, since the display is always behind on reality...

    I also send a mail to Support on if and when this will be solved. I am very satisfied on about everything this watch offers, but this issue would be a show stopper for me if not solved (on short term).
  • neiltrineiltri Posts: 14 [Outstanding Explorer]
    Same point as others.

    I bought a GPS watch so as to help me with pace and the results so far are not good.  The "real time" pace reading is nothing like this and the way it changes or does not is pretty useless.

    Sometimes it shows a figure I know is much slower than I have been running and then others is the other way.  Yesterday I did the last 4 miles "at pace" and the watch was showing various between 07:10 and 07:25 but actual average came out at 07:39.  I assume the average is more accurate but is not much use when actually running?

    Average pace has a purpose but knowing the actual running pace at a particular point is actually quite relevant.

    This said it is my first experience of using any GPS watch and so I may be expecting too much or not using the technology correctly

    Neil
  • WaltertBWaltertB Posts: 5 [Master Explorer]
    Hello Neiltri,

    It's my first experience with a GPS sportswatch too, but others in this topic have compared the behaviour realtime with for instance Garmin watches of colleague runners and those appear to be much more accurate. So there should be no technical limitation overall. 
  • jaszczombjaszczomb Posts: 68 [Renowned Trailblazer]
    neiltri wrote:

    This said it is my first experience of using any GPS watch and so I may be expecting too much or not using the technology correctly

    Neil
    This is right GPS technology won't let you monitor real time pace/speed when moving so slow. Precision of it is about +/- 5m so it's fine when you're going fast (car/motorbike) but can be totally inacurate when running. To measure strides you need to take data not from GPS but accelerometer. As far as I now only one watch on the market can do this  (910 xt)
  • serotoninaserotonina Posts: 7 [Legendary Explorer]
    Same here. The update times of instant pace are sloooooooow, it updates every 30 seconds or more, so it's not instant.

    I think this is a major issue with this watch. So please Tomtom, fix that.

    My watch: TomTom Multisports firmware version 1.6.13
  • aheicheaheiche Posts: 3 [Neophyte Traveler]
    No this is my 3rd TT watch being returned for being defective and I'm going back to my Garmin 405. The average pace sets at ~8:30 when I first start running and never changes. Even if I start walking for a mile. The average pace should be the average over the run or lap whatever its set to. In this case it is just completely wrong and not averaging out or showing factual data over time.
  • samlourencosamlourenco Posts: 7 [Master Traveler]
    Hi Guys,

    I noticed that, and I realise that is not about pace and avg pace, distance is completely off TOO.

    I post this in another topic, but I will repost here, because I think that this too problems are linked, and maybe are the same:

    This was posted in: http://discussions.tomtom.com/t5/GPS-Sport-watches/Bug-or-Hardware-fault/td-p/752047

    "

    I start to use tomtom sport runner about 6 months ago.

    And I have nothing to complain about precision and this things, 100% of the time I realise that the problem was about runkeeper, endomondo, etc; that dind't follow the TCX format standard.

    Unfortunately since the last update 1.6.13, my device start to work not properly, for example:

    -Some outdoor known racing circuits, that has exactely 5.4 km, and that I have done 100 times and track with tomtom sport runner, started to tracking between 3.0 and 3.4km. And every time I'm racing tomtom are tracking not properly with distances and speed.

     

    Since this update, I'm completely unsatisfied because I can not longer trust on my Tomtom sport runner.

     

    Has anyone having the same problem? Find any solution?

    I tried rest factory, without any improve.

    "

    Thanks a lot,

    Samuel
  • earlneathearlneath Posts: 4 [Master Traveler]
    +1. lap pace is a good idea
  • EliSelzerEliSelzer Posts: 18 [Outstanding Explorer]
    While I haven't used Current/Instant Pace much, I can say I'm seeing this issue in my workouts as they upload to MapMyRun/TomTom Mysports.  For example, this morning's 3 mile run my average pace was 8:22/mile, total time 25:11.  The distance has stayed correct and consistent, and teh Average Pace screen seems to be updating correctly throughout.  However, looking at my chart on MapMyRun (http://www.mapmyrun.com/workout/517529083), my pace stays regularly above 9 minutes/mile.  I know I slow on corners and had a couple of slow downs here and there, but it seems impossible to average an 8:22 pace if my current pace almost never drops below 8:45.  The MySports website matches MapMyRun.

    However, if I upload the .fit file to Strava (http://www.strava.com/activities/124123121),  the current pace chart seems much more accruate.  

    Overall, I'd say this points to a calculation/algorithm problem, not just within the watch, but likely embeded into the TTBIN file.
  • neto_plneto_pl Posts: 3 [Neophyte Traveler]
    The same issue. First run first disappointment. Average peace alomst 10 sec to fast, and instant peace - no comment. I hope this will be fixes asap, as such a defect disqualify this watch as any kinf of a serious training device.

    Total lack of raction of TT customer service on this topic is inexplicable. I do not expect that the issue will be solved immediately, however feedback is more than required. This is not a way to build a reliable brand, but to destroy one. 
  • Reggie1404Reggie1404 Posts: 11 [Legendary Explorer]
    Software update 1.7.16 has just been released so let's hope it fixes the Pace issue;

    http://au.support.tomtom.com/app/answers/detail/a_id/17589
  • ahdellgrenahdellgren Posts: 3 [Neophyte Traveler]
    Had my TT runner for under a week now and on every single run it shows pace way off. compared with Garmin 310XT and iphone app, witch both shows the same pace, but  the TT is totally off. Went on the track today and tried both the run and treadmill function. it's like both stiks with the fasthest pace gets stuck around this until i stop running and start again.

    my luck i have one week of full return so after reading these threads i'm absolutely sure about returning this watch.
  • gl00gl00 Posts: 965 [Revered Pioneer]
    ahdellgren:<BR /><BR />actually, instant pace has been improved quite a bit since last firmware update, so many of these remarks are now out of date... but some issues remain probably...<BR /><BR />1- were you running with the latest firmware update (should be 1.7.16)?<BR /><BR />2- please note that tomtom thinks differently than garmin when it comes to instant pace: in order for the display to be more stable, it is slower to update (accelerations shorter than 10s long will not impact the display much), whereas garmin allows the display to be unstable (instant pace constantly jumps around the actual pace you are running at) the counterpart to that being that small changes in pace are detected earlier.<BR /><BR />3- in case there is still an issue with instant pace (and I suspect there still are some improvements to make) would you mind telling us more about the issue? what pace were you running at for example, what pace was the tomtom showing? was it stuck for several minutes or just a few seconds?<BR /><BR />thanks!
  • ahdellgrenahdellgren Posts: 3 [Neophyte Traveler]
    Thanks for the quick follow up.

    Yes, i'm updated with the latest update and i realise the pace is updating slower in order to get more stable readout in contradictions to Garmin and most smartphone apps.

    from what i expirensed so far:

    today i ran the track, running with pace around 4:10 (both TT and Garmin) as i ended the fast labs and lowered the pace to around 5:30 (Garmin, and my expirence ;-) ) but the TT reads 5:00 - 5:10 for the intire lab (several minutes). I tried to shift to the threadmill function hoping the accelerometer would read differently, but the result was the same. Ran several rounds calibrated and tried again with same result.

    First when stopping or walking the pace changes realistcally.

    Seems to me the pace gets stuck around the fastest pace and is perhaps buffering to long.

    Reguards

    Anders
  • WaltertBWaltertB Posts: 5 [Master Explorer]
    I can confirm that software update 1.7.16 improved the instant pace. The TT is now moving to the actual pace much quicker than before. I can imagin what with short interfalls it's not yet ideal, but with the 1.000m intervalls I regularly do, current pace update it acceptable.

    I have no issues with accurate distance with my TT whatsoever. Ran the Rotterdam marathon last weekend and my TT stopped at exactly 42.2km.
  • hkontrohkontro Posts: 9 [Legendary Explorer]
    I don't see any improvement in current pace with update 1.7.16. As the run progresses, it starts lagging more and more. For example, on todays run, there was a few minutes brake with standing still and slowly walking. When starting running again around 6 min/km pace, the current pace showed numbers around 8 min/km the first minute, and then numbers around 7 min/km for several minutes before reaching the correct pace.

    As I mentioned in an other post, no type of interval sessions can be done with this watch utilizing the current speed view. Garmins can do it, why not TomTom? Also, where is the view for average lap pace? That would smooth the pace enough eliminating the problem with current pace jumping too much, as it of course does if it's updated at high frequency.

    I understand that many hobbyjoggers are satisfied with a watch that tells them how far they ran and in how many minutes. But this is 2014 and the watch is called TomTom Runner. Why don't you call it the TomTom Hobbyjogger, if you don't care about adding features actually benefical for runners?

    This is not hatespeech, I'd just like to see this crucial pace issue to be taken seriously :) I like many other things in the watch.
  • nmrunnernmrunner Posts: 5 [Master Explorer]
    I'm having the same issue.  I've had it for about 6 months and it used to be fine, until the internal drive failed and I had it replaced under warranty.  The new watch has never been as accurate as the old one, and it has serious issues with pace.  I can run up a huge hill and slow down 30-45 seconds/mile and only see 1-5 second pace change on the watch.  Once I hit the other side of a hill and increase speed 30-45 seconds/mile it won't change my pace on the watch.  I run with my wife who has a Garmin and she is consistently showing 30-50 seconds slower pace than my watch, and my runkeeper app on my phone is consistent with her watch.  This makes the watch useless for running track repeats or any race where you are glancing at your watch to see your current pace. I'm on the newest version of firmware and was really hopeful that it would help, but after 5 runs I'm convinced that it isn't fixed.  TOMTOM - it's time to address this issue. 
  • magnezkomagnezko Posts: 29 [Outstanding Wayfarer]
    Reporting about TomTom Runner with FW 1.7.16

    I had similar problem as [hcontro] yesterday : I ran a warmup down the street and switched to walk along a friend for about 20 seconds. Then I headed to a flat path where I usually take tempo runs and I can pretty much 'feel the pace in my legs' there. It was just about 50m (4m gain) from the walk end-point and then on the path I aimed for 5 min/km pace. For about following 250m the 'current pace' on the watch reported values floating around 5'40" (+-2") which was a nonsense. Not sure what would follow because I left the path after 300m for a sloped road. After the run I took the GPX file and checked the range in GpsPrune and the average tempo for those 250m really was under 5 min/km.

    Such implementation of the 'current pace' is useless for me. I can supply the GPX or TTBIN eventually.
  • EricularEricular Posts: 5 [Master Explorer]
    Any update on this issue with the new 1.7.22 firmware?  I have had a terrible time with this issue, even on 1.7.16.  

    During my last run, I ran a 9 minute mile for the first mile, then for the 2nd mile I accelerated to what I thought was about an 8 minute pace.  My instant pace slowly crept from 9:00 to about 8:20 over the course of the ENTIRE MILE, and lo and behold my lap time for mile 2 was right at 8 minutes.  This, despite my instant pace never even getting close to 8:00.

    If I stop and walk, instant pace will pick up on it immediately, and then if I start with a new pace it will jump quickly to that.  It's definitely an issue with the smoothing algorithm.  My last Garmin never had this issue, and I never had any complaints about the instant pace being too jumpy... so I think that end of the spectrum would be much preferred.  Better yet, have an adjustable sensitivity variable to make everyone happy.  This can't be that hard to program.
  • nmrunnernmrunner Posts: 5 [Master Explorer]
    I've given up on the issue.  I am returning my watch for a replacement and will be selling it as new when I receive it.  I have ordered the new Garmin FR620. Tom Tom has no intention of fixing the pace issue, all they do is run you around in circles telling you to restore the watch to factory defaults and reinstall the firmware.  The support I've received is delayed and pathetic. 
This discussion has been closed.

Who's Online in this Category0