Rider 550 & iPhone XS Bluetooth Connectivity Problem - Page 2 — TomTom Community

Rider 550 & iPhone XS Bluetooth Connectivity Problem

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Answers

  • GettingfedupnowGettingfedupnow Posts: 20 [Outstanding Wayfarer]
    edited February 2020
    This article explains why Apple increased security on Bluetooth in IOS 13 and what Tomtom will need to do, to be able to communicate with it now (just like everyone else has managed to do)
    Basically their app needs to be modified to to ask permission to communicate first

    It aint complicated really - its just progress

    https://www.theverge.com/2019/9/19/20867286/ios-13-bluetooth-permission-privacy-feature-apps
  • ST1300_PanEuropeanST1300_PanEuropean Posts: 80 [Outstanding Wayfarer]
    edited February 2020
    @DougLap , @Gettingfedupnow

    Doug, I'm new as a TomTom user (but not as a GPS, smartphone, or computer user), but I am compelled to say that I think @Gettingfedupnow has pretty clearly identified the root cause of the problem iPhone users are having with the Rider 550.

    To summarize his position, he's saying that Apple made changes to the way Bluetooth connections are established & maintained with external devices, and these changes required application developers such as TomTom to make minor changes to the way their apps and/or devices establish & maintain a Bluetooth connection with an iPhone running the most recent release of the iPhone operating system.

    We can presume that Apple has fully documented the nature of these changes as well as documented exactly what application and device software developers had to do to update their software, simply because so many other apps & devices that connect to an iPhone via Bluetooth have had their application and/or device software updated in the past 3 months. The whole constellation of other brand (non-TomTom) devices and iPhone apps - ranging from phone headsets to drones - currently have no problem at all establishing and maintaining a Bluetooth connection to an iPhone running the current version of iOS. An example - and I provide this dispassionately, without any irony or innuendo, is Garmin's iPhone app 'SmartLink' and the various Garmin GPSRs, which are all trouble-free with the current iOS.

    The link to the article from The Verge that @Gettingfedupnow provided in his post above explains why Apple made the changed they did to iOS Bluetooth connectivity. Apple's rationale is sensible and in the best interest of their customers.

    I don't know why TomTom has not yet released an updated version of MyDriveConnect. It doesn't make sense to me that a large organization such as TomTom, which obviously has competence in software development, did not react to the Apple Bluetooth changes as a matter of course and release an updated iPhone app within a month or so of Apple making their changes.

    I do know that the overall market for standalone GPS navigators is shrinking as more and more automobile (and even motorcycle) manufactures supply built-in navigation systems in their vehicles, and as smartphone navigation systems (e.g. Google Maps, Apple Maps, and even TomTom's own standalone smartphone navigation app) further erode the market for portable GPSRs. I also note that TomTom did not report good financial results for 2019 (see TomTom 2019 Financial Report Released - not pretty here in our forum).

    For the above-stated reasons, I am beginning to get a little concerned about the future.

    Michael
  • GettingfedupnowGettingfedupnow Posts: 20 [Outstanding Wayfarer]
    Thanks Michael.

    I had trouble on the Facebook Tomtom site getting them to understand the issue. The admin on there just got themselves all stressed out and locked onto Apple being the issue and decided not to discuss the issue any more

    I am pleased that you have also grasped the very probable cause of the issue. It seemed pretty straightforward to me too. :) Lets hope that someone from Tomtom also investigates this.

    I am not surprised that Tomtom profits have fallen. They now have a truly poor reputation in motorcycle land.
    When you add in how long it takes for them to fix issues, the fact they moved the goalposts on what "lifetime maps" meant and the fact they are not cheap toys to start with (motorcycle are expensive at least) it is clear why they are losing customers

    They need to rebuild trust with those customers and try to earn back some of the loyalty they have shed - at the moment they seem to be doing the opposite of that.

    If they wish to reverse things, they need to their improve customer service as a starting point.
  • YamFazManYamFazMan Posts: 20,063
    Superusers
    Hi

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    ATB YFM
  • ST1300_PanEuropeanST1300_PanEuropean Posts: 80 [Outstanding Wayfarer]
    @YamFazMan

    It is possible that iOS 12.x is the most recent version of iOS available for the iPhone 5S, but it is certainly not the most recent version for later iPhones such as the X (ten).

    There are considerable disadvantages to turning off automatic updates of the Apple phone operating system, not the least of which is compromised security.

    The solution to the problem of iPhones running current version software (e.g. 13.x) not working with TomTom navigation devices has to come from TomTom in the form of either a navigation device firmware update, an updated release of MyDriveConnect, or both.

    It is just not acceptable to suggest that iPhone users stop updating the iPhone OS, or roll back their iPhone OS to an earlier version (if that is even possible) in order to connect with their TomTom navigation device.

    There are tens of thousands of apps available for iPhones - the developers of those other apps have provided updates to ensure full Bluetooth compatibility with the current version of iOS.

    Now, TomTom needs to do the same, otherwise, customers are going to be upset because they are not getting what TomTom is currently advertising: full telephony operation, SMS text display, and live traffic.

    Michael
  • Nigel ANigel A Posts: 123 [Renowned Trailblazer]
    I have the iphone SE (based on the 5) current os is 13.3.1 I gather it is (or maybe !) possible to go back but at a risk of "Bricking" the phone. I believe there are 2 or 3 threads now about this. Tomtoms answer seem to involve a bucket of sand and lowering your head !!! Fed up with all the "turn this on, turn this off, turn round 3 times and pray to Omm" especially as these solutions only seem to work for short periods. Need sorting, but Tomtom seem uninterested, or unable, to sort it out.
  • YamFazManYamFazMan Posts: 20,063
    Superusers
    edited February 2020
    Hi Michael
    @ST1300_PanEuropean
    It is possible that iOS 12.x is the most recent version of iOS available for the iPhone 5S, but it is certainly not the most recent version for later iPhones such as the X (ten)
    Yes... iOS 12.4.5 is the latests O/S for the iPhone 5s
    There are considerable disadvantages to turning off automatic updates of the Apple phone operating system, not the least of which is compromised security
    Apple still notify you if there's an iOS Update even if you if you have Auto Updates turned OFF
    Then the Choice is mine whether I install the update of not....

    Screen Shot Auto updates ON....
    wjsbpwvfiefl.png
    Quote from link bellow... iPhone 6, iPhone 6 Plus, and iPhone 5S are no longer getting the latest mobile operating system upgrades from Apple and will be stuck on iOS 12 for good
    Link... https://www.express.co.uk/life-style/science-technology/1179859/Apple-iPhone-6-iPhone-5s-OS-13-not-compatible-release-launch

    ATB YFM
  • ST1300_PanEuropeanST1300_PanEuropean Posts: 80 [Outstanding Wayfarer]
    edited February 2020
    @YamFazMan

    I don't disagree with anything you have written above, but it's not germane to the problem that this thread discusses, which is that the Rider 550 navigation device does not fully function when it is paired with an iPhone running iOS 13.x - that being the most recent operating system for the newer iPhones.

    I'm happy that users who have older iPhones, such as your iPhone 5S, are not affected by this problem.

    The issue - the whole point of this specific discussion - is that users who have newer iPhones running iOS 13.x have lost most of the advertised functionality of their TomTom navigation device.

    So, let's keep the discussion "on topic". The topic, as shown in the title of the thread, is "Rider 550 & iPhone XS Bluetooth Connectivity Problem".

    Michel
  • BilbobagginsBilbobaggins Posts: 4 [Master Traveler]
    I’m running the IOS 13.4 beta, it’s even more unstable if that’s possible! I’ve been through every iteration of turn on turn off resets and sent in every serial number on my system and TT have reverted back to previous solutions rather than just saying stick with the workaround for now. No admission that they just can’t sort it. I have sent an email to where I purchased it from to see if a refund is possible.
  • GettingfedupnowGettingfedupnow Posts: 20 [Outstanding Wayfarer]
    Tomtom are totally incompetent as a business. No wonder they are hemorrhaging business hand over fist, they have not a clue how to treat customers or how to fix their own systems. This is just the latest in a sad series of issues from them. Frankly, they deserve to fold.
  • YamFazManYamFazMan Posts: 20,063
    Superusers
    edited March 2020
    Hi
    @Gettingfedupnow
    I’m running the IOS 13.4 beta, it’s even more unstable if that’s possible! (Snip)
    Judging by the quote above it’s an Apple AND Tomtom problem
    I does get tiresome with Apple always being painted whiter than white, and can do no wrong....

    ATB YFM
  • GettingfedupnowGettingfedupnow Posts: 20 [Outstanding Wayfarer]
    edited February 2020
    I am not painting Apple any colour at all. I am no IOS fan at all - I suffer it cos it's marginally better than the Android OS IMO. I work in I.T., I use I.T. every single day. Chuck me a website, HTML or Excel problems and I can sort it. I even have a modicum of SQL and programming experience. Alas I am not a bluetooth programmer or App designer or this issue would have been sorted some time back. The simple facts are: I have 4 cars with Bluetooth everything in them, a Ducati with a Bluetooth dash, a Cardo bluetooth headset and none of 'em have any issues whatsoever in syncing with my Iphone(s). I have a good friend with the latest Garmin Zumo, and he has no issues syncing with his Iphone X. I have asked on a Ducati forum I use - no-one there has issues syncing with Garmins, but everyone on Tomtom and using an Iphone does have issues. Now call me biased if you will - but the ONLY issue here is with the Tomtom Rider refusing to sync with any Iphone on IOS 13 or better... So everyone else in the land of the blue tooth works OK and accommodates IOS 13.3 etc - Tomtom Rider 500/550 is not OK and refuses to exchange data. Sherlock Holmes is not really needed here to find the errant party, but it is certainly is not the Apple Iphone.
    AS an aside: If you have issues with the IOS 13.4 Beta though, I would strongly suggest that you leave any Beta version software to those that dont mind having issues.
    Beta's are purely testbeds for problem finding and problem solving. (maybe Tomtom could try that?)
    If you stick to a stable version, you will have far fewer issues ...excepting syncing with a Tomtom rider of course... that is not happening with any secure version of IOS.
    Anyone with an old insecure bluetooth version and TT are your boys mind ;)
  • YamFazManYamFazMan Posts: 20,063
    Superusers
    edited February 2020
    Hi
    (Snip)
    If you stick to a stable version, you will have far fewer issues
    (Snip)
    I have, and it works just fine ;)
    See... https://discussions.tomtom.com/en/discussion/comment/1693798/#Comment_1693798

    ATB YFM
  • ST1300_PanEuropeanST1300_PanEuropean Posts: 80 [Outstanding Wayfarer]
    edited February 2020
    YamFazMan wrote: »
    I have, and it works just fine ;)
    @YamFazMan

    Your comment is disingenuous. As I pointed out before in my post immediately below the post you quote above, you are using an older iPhone that is running iOS 12. Your iPhone 5S is not even capable of running iOS 13.

    No-one in this forum has ever complained about Bluetooth connectivity problems with iOS 12 or earlier versions. The problem only affects newer iPhone users who are running iOS version 13.

    Please - don't muddy the waters like this. You have made thousands of very helpful posts in the past, for which all of us are grateful. But with this iOS 13 & Bluetooth matter, you are not promoting clear understanding of the issue.

    Michael.
  • GettingfedupnowGettingfedupnow Posts: 20 [Outstanding Wayfarer]
    The Beta comment was to assist Bilbobaggins. He is the one running a Beta version. As above, lets try and keep on topic though
  • YamFazManYamFazMan Posts: 20,063
    Superusers
    edited February 2020
    Hi
    @ST1300_PanEuropean

    I totally Agree... But its not wholly a Tomtom problem other platforms are still having problems with iOS 13....

    ATB YFM
  • BilbobagginsBilbobaggins Posts: 4 [Master Traveler]
    The Beta comment was to assist Bilbobaggins. He is the one running a Beta version. As above, lets try and keep on topic though

    Thanks guys, I am only running the betas and running feedback to Apple on the issue because I’m convinced the flaw is the app. Beta 2 links perfectly for 20 seconds then consistently drops as per the thread, no change. I try all of the solutions then switch back to the workaround which works faultlessly. (Less messages and calls obviously) I get around the mydrive issue by planning routes on my iPads mydrive app and they transfer through well enough. My cardo lets me take and make calls anyway so I am resigned to the fact that I’ve just overpaid for a unit as its primary function still works....
  • GettingfedupnowGettingfedupnow Posts: 20 [Outstanding Wayfarer]
    Has anyone heard anything ?
  • GettingfedupnowGettingfedupnow Posts: 20 [Outstanding Wayfarer]
    Bump
  • dowmarekdowmarek Posts: 5 [Master Explorer]
    Such a lack of reaction encourages to changes. A new interesting equipment from Garmin has been introduced.
  • ST1300_PanEuropeanST1300_PanEuropean Posts: 80 [Outstanding Wayfarer]
    Today was the first time I used my Rider 550 for a long distance motorcycle trip.

    I launched the "MyDrive" app on my iPhone 10 (running iOS 13.x), and also turned on the personal hotspot.

    Much to my surprise, I received up to date traffic information all the time I was riding, and the small "phone" icon on the screen of the Rider also appeared. When I touched the phone icon, it gave me a message to the effect of "say something" (????), rather than bringing up a list of contacts that I could call.

    I don't know if that means the system is working as it should or not. I will be riding the bike every day for the next month (in Tunisia), and I will keep observing it to see how well traffic and telephony work.

    I did see the news about Garmin releasing a new device (at a significantly lower price point than their previous devices). Although this new Garmin device is attractive for use in either North America or Europe (but not both!), TomTom still has a market advantage in that their devices work on both sides of the Atlantic (meaning, you can get worldwide map coverage on a single TomTom device), and you don't have to purchase stand-alone one-time map coverage if you are going to Africa or Asia.

    But... I do think that it is critical that TomTom get this phone connectivity problem solved quickly, or they are going to lose market share to Garmin. If word starts to get around in the riding community about TomTom devices not operating reliably and consistently with iPhones running iOS 13.x, TomTom's reputation will suffer.

    It is worthwhile noting that Apple announced this week that 78% of the iPhones in use worldwide are running iOS 13.x. Presumably the other 22% are older devices that cannot be updated to iOS 13.

    Michael
  • GettingfedupnowGettingfedupnow Posts: 20 [Outstanding Wayfarer]

    But... I do think that it is critical that TomTom get this phone connectivity problem solved quickly, or they are going to lose market share to Garmin. If word starts to get around in the riding community about TomTom devices not operating reliably and consistently with iPhones running iOS 13.x, TomTom's reputation will suffer.

    It is worthwhile noting that Apple announced this week that 78% of the iPhones in use worldwide are running iOS 13.x. Presumably the other 22% are older devices that cannot be updated to iOS 13.

    Michael

    Tomtom have already lost market share. If you look at their sales and profits they have dropped massively over the last two/three years. I'd suggest it is precisely because they just ignore any issues like this one. I know of several that have returned their Riders as unfit for purpose (in the UK) and swapped over to Garmin instead where there are few if any issues. Their business policy is nothing short of appalling. The Riders are advertised as having working features that do not work with (on your figures) 78% of the world's best selling mobile phone company.


  • GettingfedupnowGettingfedupnow Posts: 20 [Outstanding Wayfarer]
    edited March 2020
    Something seems to have changed. I was able to connect my Rider and iPhone yesterday. It took a bit of fiddling but it did at least connect...this was on IOS13.3 which has been on there for weeks. I have updated my iphone to IOS 13.4 and the connection has held. Traffic is still a bit sketchy, but at least (read out) text messaging and handsfree started working. Anyone else had any success ?
  • LNorLNor Posts: 2 [Apprentice Traveler]
    It still doesn't work for me. Iphone 11 and rider 550 😢
  • Amro-SobiehAmro-Sobieh Posts: 1 [New Traveler]
    Still unstable at all, @Gettingfedupnow does it got any better upon updating to IOS 13.4?
    I am actually hesitated to update my IOS.
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