Map pricing and Updates for built in devices.
Carminat
Posts: 989 [Revered Pioneer]
I posted this in the map forum, but there has been no response. Maybe in the built in forum it will attract something from TomTom.
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I am well aware that pricing for specialist stuff is guided by development and maintenance etc costs, for example drugs which, once developed and approved, are actually produced for minimal costs, but sold at enormous prices to cover R & D.
But I really fail to see why some built in maps are charged at such high prices. For standalone devices, we can get Map Update Service for a really decent price, but for my Renault R-LInk, I can only buy a single map at an extortionate price (UK&ROI £45, Western Europe £80). Certainly, I am aware there must be some difference from the TomTom maps available from TT, so there's additional cost there. But the work carried out by whomsoever at TT or Renault is not reflected in map availability - I have the very latest map available, v1000 released in April, NOT the latest available to TT subscribers, which is now two later, v1010 (or 1011) and due to become three later, v1015, any day now. So nobody is putting in hours of conversion work for me to pay for. And I don't get ANYTHING out of Mapshare corrections or camera updates. If TT publish sales efforts quoting figures about roads change XX% all the time, why is this only reflected in maps bought and updated directly from TT and not from maps available from Renault? My subscription includes mapshare changes and cameras for which there is never a single update between map releases. Built in devices are the answer to our prayers, but the updating is destroying the advantages of them.
Cue a post from somebody at TT saying that map releases for Renault are controlled and arranged by Renault. I already know that. I cannot understand why TT entered into an arrangement where their maps are controlled by the OEM company.
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I am well aware that pricing for specialist stuff is guided by development and maintenance etc costs, for example drugs which, once developed and approved, are actually produced for minimal costs, but sold at enormous prices to cover R & D.
But I really fail to see why some built in maps are charged at such high prices. For standalone devices, we can get Map Update Service for a really decent price, but for my Renault R-LInk, I can only buy a single map at an extortionate price (UK&ROI £45, Western Europe £80). Certainly, I am aware there must be some difference from the TomTom maps available from TT, so there's additional cost there. But the work carried out by whomsoever at TT or Renault is not reflected in map availability - I have the very latest map available, v1000 released in April, NOT the latest available to TT subscribers, which is now two later, v1010 (or 1011) and due to become three later, v1015, any day now. So nobody is putting in hours of conversion work for me to pay for. And I don't get ANYTHING out of Mapshare corrections or camera updates. If TT publish sales efforts quoting figures about roads change XX% all the time, why is this only reflected in maps bought and updated directly from TT and not from maps available from Renault? My subscription includes mapshare changes and cameras for which there is never a single update between map releases. Built in devices are the answer to our prayers, but the updating is destroying the advantages of them.
Cue a post from somebody at TT saying that map releases for Renault are controlled and arranged by Renault. I already know that. I cannot understand why TT entered into an arrangement where their maps are controlled by the OEM company.
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It works out cheaper to buy a PND or use TomTom on a mobile device.
Maps on my car are old - Europe-910.4962 - I guess that previous owner did not bother to use free updates when they were available.
Second thing is that memory card quality - maybe in 2014 3MB/S memory cards were great but today we do a lot better, but no luck - my maps are tied to my memory card and I do not want to start going the wrong route, trying to get "special" SD card. On Carminat Live, after a update, maps are tied to navigation system serial number and you do not lose maps when your sd card dies.
Another "nice" thing is R-link Toolbox - no features, no support and no help - use what you have and be glad. This is probably the worst software I have seen.
And best of all, like previous posts mention, is the price of maps - 90£ for Europe map in time, where Waze rules the world - you got to be joking! I feel like ripping out my headunit, because 910 map is really not usable.
What would it take for TomTom to take support of R-link devices back in their own hands?
Maybe we need to start a petition? I really love my car, but navigation makes me cry.
I am well aware that TomTom has some sort of agreement with Renault-Nissan aliance, but hey - this is beyound ridiculous!
Don't get me wrong - i do not wish for pirated maps for free - if I needed free maps, I would use Waze or Here. I need my device to work correctly and be updateable. Maybe it is a lot to ask, but I tend to think that for TomtOm it is not "Mission impossible"
With a LOT of effort and patience, it IS possible to overcome the small card size by setting up a bigger one. One problem is the need to go out to the car and mess about there with the engine running whilst the thing struggles with whatever it's doing (I once did it just with ignition switched on withut engine running and cost me a new battery!).
Try this at your own risk - I succeeded after many re-tries because of course it never works first time.
I assume you have already setup an R-Link toolbox account.
Format a new SD card and put it into the car, switch engine on and allow it to initialise itself. Go back to computer and go to R-Link Store. Go to My Products, then Manage my Products, then sync the listed SD card, then start Toolbox and download the map.
Easy peasy!!! Except it isn't. I've just given you the rough idea on the assumption that you know what you're doing and won't do anything precipitous or foolish, like formatting your existing card. I also copied my original card to computer and copied that to new card. Eventually (and I don't really understand how) I ended with a new, bigger SD card which worked and bought and downloaded later maps. That was in my previous vehicle (2013 Kangoo van) and I haven't yet tried it with my new van (2018 Kangoo van). Incidentally, my current map, Western Europe v1000, I obtained legally, from the R-Link Store, for only £25 - for some reason it appeared in April for that price and I bought it quick before they discovered their mistake - seemed like a bargain replacement for my UK&ROI map priced at £45. It changed back to £80 some short time afterwards.
I also found a French program which allowed me to view and fiddle with the files on the proprietary card (e.g. added a load of my own POIs). I don't use it often because it's windows only and I'm on Mac with a VERY old and clunky Windows laptop.
I did insert an empty card in my system a couple times, but sadly it does not write anything. Also, tried preparing it in "R-link Explorer" but still no go.
I will try a bit later.
Also, managed to get 10.05 maps from Ebay for about 30€ with the card which seems ok. Just no clue how is my system going to behave with new card and will I get at least one update for these new maps... Many questions there.
Honestly, older Carminat was so much more easy to update and maintain - login, update, purchase and enjoy.
The worst part is that under my current card management, I see map v1000. So not fair.
And my new card is without content, but already ~1Gb full.
This is becoming interesting.
The card from Ebay came - guess, what - it is counterfeit as I suspected.
And I thought that counterfeit items are past in Ebay. Worst of all - it was posted from my country - feel ashamed.
My success came from various efforts - format SD card, insert in car and switch engine on (nothing seems to happen, but it should initialise the card). Sync the card in the R-Link store. Copy current card to computer and copy from computer to blank new card.
There are three steps to try. Initialise, copy, sync. Downloading in Toolbox takes so long to do each step (welcome to TomTom and Renault versions of New Technology! Together with my very old laptop running Windows 7 Home Premium) that I really can't remember exactly which of these combined with another to produce results. But in the car, you don't need to drive off for half an hour to initialise the card, just run the engine for a couple of minutes. When you've succeeded in getting the new card with its map, then it needs a long run of the engine whilst it updates.
The existing card when viewed in Windows Explorer (NOT R-Link Explorer), should show either 2 or 4 files named TOMTOM.000, TOMTOM001, TOMOM003, TOMTOM004. and they are unreadable by Windows Explorer. Those files being proprietary ALSO say the size of the card, BUT only the size taken up by the proprietary files. I used a 16GB card, but Properties reported only 8GB.
- They asked me to send pictures of the card in exchange for statement of counterfeit product. So 30€ not lost yet - offered seller to refund willingly.
- Before me, noone had updated maps in the due time. I am second owner for the car that was actually kept as a spare car. This made map update impossible for me and the map stayed locked to the card and not the device. So no copying or replacing card as well.
- Got a promise to look at the problem and special offer for update (100€ is fun for maps but I refused that - would rather convert to pirated map that I already have... )
- Learned a lot about R-link differences from normal systems.
Let's see where it takes me.https://www.change.org/p/renault-force-renault-to-support-r-link-properly-or-let-tomtom-support-it
Pass it on to anyone that has R-Link and would like to support this cause.
https://www.cnbc.com/2018/09/18/renault-nissan-to-use-googles-android-system-in-its-dashboards.html
https://en.discussions.tomtom.com/travel-lounge-154/the-writing-is-on-the-wall-1040601
About Renault getting Android Auto or whatever they plan - I am 100% sure they will find a way to spoil(for the lack of better word) that idea. Also, I have driven a car with AA and I cannot say that I enjoyed it - not every country has rights to install that phone app (mine hadn't so I had to use APK) and I would like a solution that works, instead of reading forums about why Waze refuses to work in AA, due to power saving modes and gps restrictions.
Nevertheless I iwish Tomtom to get the best out of this deal and get newer tech and better possibilities out of this merger, if it happens.
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With this information I can confirm that your R-link navigation device requires an encrypted card, which means that this card can only be used in your vehicle (wrong assumption).
You mentioned you had two SD cards, one of which was purchased from Ebay. Can you confirm that the other SD card you have is the original one that came with the car?
If not then you will have to go to your nearest Renault dealer to purchase a new one. With purchasing a new card you will more than likely have either the most up to date map version or one that's slightly older off which an update can be obtained from the R-Link store.
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This is pure "Renault style" in all it's glory - go and buy the card and then you can buy an update from us for maps! Gladly, I have original card and I just have to shell out 100€ for maps! Yippeeee!
After I mentioned, that 100€ for map that is not even fresh, is ridiculous and included screenshot of invoice from Tomtom, when I updated Carminat map, I got nice "good buy!" reply:
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Thank you for getting back to me.
I will now transfer your enquiry to another department that will deal with your country with the view that they will be able to assist you further.
In the meantime I want to tank you for your original contact and I would like to wish you a good weekend and I thank you for contacting Renault connected services.
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Yes, thank you too! For famous Renault hospitality!
There is a good thing though - R-link system was made with progress in mind (thank you, Tomtom!) and I used 5 minutes of my time to activate Android Auto on this system. Now I have a choice of 5 navigation apps with latest maps and only 1 of them is paid.
The morale of the story is simple - you fail if you want too much money for your product.