Renault blames TT — TomTom Community

Renault blames TT

737-800737-800 Posts: 13 [Outstanding Explorer]
edited January 2019 in Built in car navigation
I'm pretty sure there'll be a lot of 'here we go again' in a moment but I just have to air this here with hope that we can get some closure to this ongoing Renault v TomTom.

Carminat - there I've said it - has been working in our Megan for the last a year. The car was a few months old when we bought it from a dealer so naturally it came with warranty.

A week ago the built in Carminat struggled to find a gps so I removed the SD card and went to TomTom Home where I was told there was a new GPS fix. So I started the update procedure. Now there'll be very few of you who won't know what's coming next.

Upon replacing the SD Card back into the car's Sat Nav I was met with 'Can't find maps' all over the display screen.
We have discovered through technical people the original SD Card has - for whatever reason - become damaged (electonically) as now no PC recognises it as a SD Card.

Renault say it's a TomTom issue and TomTom say...well nothing actually.
I've read and understood that the SD Card becomes linked to the vehicle but I can't fathom why an automatic back up folder has been created as it appears to offer no solution to the issue by copying everything from it to the new 8gb card I obtained in hope to resolve the matter. In fact all I've ended up with is another variant of 'You have no maps'.

TomTom haven't responded and Renault say talk to them to get your maps back so I'm at a loss what to do. I'm not convinced this is just a map issue even it I were to buy a new map - which I certainly don't want to as it must be down to TT, it was their update that started all this.

Any advice would be very welcome. It'd be really is annoying if -on top of everything else - I have to stick a TTStart20 in the window as the Carminat reminds me, as I press the ignition, that there's still no maps.

Many thanks


  • CarminatCarminat Posts: 989 [Revered Pioneer]
    Here’s the Here we go again bit. For the second time this morning (different forum) I’m wishing people could be advised to learn to swim before offering themselves up for drowning. You needed to know to make a backup copy of the SD card using Windows Explorer, NOT TT Home, before all this. (I don’t know about the Start 20, but I’d try to do the same with that for a backup too).

    You may have corrupted the card by taking it out without using the Safely remove menu item in the car.

    Try a newly formatted card - put it into car and let it initialise itself, safely remove and take it to TT Home to see if it will update and cure your problems. Pray whilst doing so.

    If it fails, buy a new card from TomTom. Alternatively try to feel happy just using the Start 20.

    PS Consider yourself fortunate you don’t have Renault R-Link. I bought a map update and renewed Live Services two months ago and their system corrupted my setup so I have nothing working. Supposedly Renault technicians have been working on putting it right for two months whilst I too use stick on satnavs on the windscreen.
  • 737-800737-800 Posts: 13 [Outstanding Explorer]
    Thanks for the advice. Could I ask you:
    What do you mean use Windows explorer?
    In the past,on the 520, I would update POI’s and cameras (from a 3rd party download) simply by connecting the device to my pc (which sees it as an external drive) and copying to the UK maps folder and never an issue. I’m struggling to understand what the difference is here as it is simply a SD card.
    The issue stems from the gps update, which has to be done via TT. The card is always taken out after the car is switched off so my view is it was the update that corrupted the card.
    I’ve got a new card and copied every single file across but the maps simply won’t show. There must be something buried deep in the original card that allows it to talk to the device.
    Like most people I hate paying for other people’s mistakes. No wonder people start using their phones instead.
    Anyway before I go off on one - what did you mean windows explorer?
  • CarminatCarminat Posts: 989 [Revered Pioneer]
    Windows Explorer is a file manager program - you used it or some other one to copy POIs to it and now to copy all the files to the new card.

    The new BLANK SD card has to be initialised by the in-car device before you copy the files to it.

    Put it in, let the Carminat get to the stage of seeing it and maybe saying No maps, then using the menu, eject it and take it to the computer to copy the files across to it. Then start TT Home and log in to get updates. If you actually bought a map from TT, it should download again.

    When you want to take the card out of the car, always use the menu to Remove it - the TT software is quite capable of getting very unhappy if you just take it out.
  • CarminatCarminat Posts: 989 [Revered Pioneer]
    Hang on. I’ve just seen an oddity. You first said the original card had become unrecognisable by any computer. So how did you copy all the files to the new one? Where did you copy them from?
  • 737-800737-800 Posts: 13 [Outstanding Explorer]
    When ever I get anything called TomTom I back up the files wherever I can. So when we got the Renault I backed up the card.

    I have also found a folder named tomtom on my pc and in it is a folder called backup 01 and inside that is the contents of the the carbinat. I can only assume it came via the update if not I’ve absolutly
    no clue how it got there as this is the only time we have had a built in sat nav and this is the only time it’s
    been updated.

    I just wished - and I know I speak for a lot of people - that there was a simple way you could back up your card through TT home. They don’t appear to be geared up for people who buy cars with their systems in (new or otherwise) and want to make a back up, and yet if you bought a map from TT then you can have that facility.

    Not a good advertisement for cars with tomtom in them.

    TomTom should really address this issue it’s not for the customer to be paying for their mistakes.
  • CarminatCarminat Posts: 989 [Revered Pioneer]
    So .... A year ago when you bought the car you did a backup of the card.

    Format your new card
    Put it in the car and switch on
    Take it out
    Put it in your computer
    Copy to it all the files from your backup of a year ago
    Put it in the car and it should work.

    As for TomTom and Renault, they annoy me probably even more than they do you, so you’re preaching to the converted. You can only assume that nobody at TT has ever driven a Renault and nobody at Renault has ever used a Sat Nav and neither of them felt it might be a good idea to continue their partnership after the deal to have their joint involvement to start off with. That’s the only explanation for them both shunting liability to each other to the detriment of customers.

    When I had a carminat, the very first thing I did was copy the card to my PC, then make more copies as it progressed through life. Sadly, their more recent joint venture, R-Link, is a proprietary format which you can’t copy to make backups. Hence I have now been without a working system ever since I paid Renault £45 for a new map and £65 for a year’s Live Services two months ago (28th September) and installing them wiped my card. TT don’t want to know. Renault say their technicians are working on a solution - I just wish they’d give support back to TT and stick to spanners!
  • 737-800737-800 Posts: 13 [Outstanding Explorer]
    Afraid I did what you said and it still doesn’t work. It’s gone from not seeing any maps to something like I’m not allowed to use them.

    I guess It’s going to be a case of using one of the old sat navs for now.

    Ironically the Start 20 I have won’t now pick up a gps, even after all the updates and resets I therefore ended up buying a new one, so going and buying a new map for the Renault is not a popular thought at the minute.
  • CarminatCarminat Posts: 989 [Revered Pioneer]
    Not allowed to use them means you have somehow copied a map from another account - did you log into TomTom using the account details for the Carminat or from some other account, e.g. the Start?

    It seems you are doing the intelligent things to help yourself, but they aren't working - TT software is not receptive to your own solutions. You really need to come here and tell us your problem and situation then wait for information on how to overcome them rather than do it yourself - I expect you now have three devices all tangled up with each other (to be safe, you need a different account [email address] for each different device).[/email]
  • 737-800737-800 Posts: 13 [Outstanding Explorer]
    Interesting. Because Carminat is the only sat nav with folders. You can’t back up on the start20.

    There were some ‘extra’ files in the
    TomTom folder that I didn’t create.
    And as I recall one was a Cab file.

    But there was no sign of such a file when I copied the SD card?

    I’ve copied both and one says no maps found the other can’t use these maps(or similar)

    So the bottom line appears to be that neither will show the maps.

    Could it be that a vital bit of system info that needs to be copied simply can’t be, unless you get the map from TT and of course paid them, they then allow that ‘vital’ bit of info so a backup can be made?
    I think the answer is yes.
  • CarminatCarminat Posts: 989 [Revered Pioneer]
    I can’t help any more because you don’t seem able (or are unwilling) to say just what you’ve done. A backup copied from the original working card a year ago would be OK to work from. I’d expect you to be having this sort of trouble if you had ‘borrowed’ a card from somebody or bought one on eBay, or logged into a different TT account.
  • CarminatCarminat Posts: 989 [Revered Pioneer]
    As a matter of fact, I still have all my Carminat backups although I sold my Renault in 2013.

    This picture shows what the original contained.

  • 737-800737-800 Posts: 13 [Outstanding Explorer]
    There would be very little point coming on a forum to ask for help then not be prepared to mention what I’ve done. I don’t know how to make what I’ve done any clearer.

    I’ve done EXACTLY what you suggested and the maps refuse to show.
    I’ve formatted a new card.
    I’ve initialised it in the car and removed the card when the car was switched off.
    I’ve copied the ORIGINAL TT files
    onto the card.
    I’ve put the new card into the car sat nav and waited for it to load but when it does it says there are no maps.
    The other folder that was created by TT from the update was put through the exact same procedure and though even though this TT folder had extra folders in it which I included in the transfer, it gave a variation of the same theme - I can’t use the maps.
    Now I afraid I can’t explain in more detail than that but both versions have been done how you suggested.
  • CarminatCarminat Posts: 989 [Revered Pioneer]
    Compare your original backup with my listing above (there WILL be a difference if yours is a Carminat Live).

    What about your TomTom accounts? How many devices have you had over the last year and how many different accounts do you have with TomTom?

    The Start 20 doesn't use TT Home and the Carminat does.

    Have you tried to get the Start maps onto the Carminat (deliberately or by mistake e.g. by signing into Home with the wrong account)?

    Etc, etc, confusion.
  • 737-800737-800 Posts: 13 [Outstanding Explorer]
    As you say the strait operates via Go so you can’t copy any files in that way.

    Btw Renault in Portugal of all places rang yesterday for device info as they say you can’t copy the sd file. ( just got that info from my wife as I was at work.

    This is not the spanner department
    It’s one that looks after tomtom devices so I’m surprised they found time to call.
  • CarminatCarminat Posts: 989 [Revered Pioneer]
    Renault do not support Carminats, so I suppose doing it in Portuguese will have as much success as you have achieved so far!

    I won't even ask how come Renault in Portugal have your phone number and information that you have a Carminat. Maybe you're a 737-800 pilot and you carry your Megane in the cargo hold to drive it around Lisbon during your overnight stops.:thinking:
  • 737-800737-800 Posts: 13 [Outstanding Explorer]
    I can’t resist telling you how they got my number.

    The local dealer was supposed to contact me but this guy did instead.

    Maybe a good YouTube video would help???
    In English!!!
  • CarminatCarminat Posts: 989 [Revered Pioneer]
    Renault is of no use to you for Carminat, they don't have access to your accounts and don't know how to deal with Carminat. The only thing they can do is offer you a new card for free as a goodwill gesture if you can persuade them you are a deserving cause. Only TomTom has the ability to put things right for you.
  • 737-800737-800 Posts: 13 [Outstanding Explorer]
    Yep I’m not expecting much.

    One last thing. When I copied the orininal working card I noticed they appeared in ‘folders’ your example above they are all ‘loose’

    Should I empty all my folders and just copy everything to the new card blank SDD?
  • CarminatCarminat Posts: 989 [Revered Pioneer]
    That listing is on a Mac.

    From the left it's Carminat (device/card/folder)
    Then 2010-07-31 Original (Original SD Card)

    Then all the blue blobs are folders, of which I had highlighted the map folder named United Kingdom and Republic of Ireland. If you highlight and copy and paste everything in the third column, from art down to zip, (including the odd few files which are not folders), they will all contain the relevant files. My list of files (starting cline.dat) merely illustrates what is contained in that map folder. Do NOT empty the folders.
  • 737-800737-800 Posts: 13 [Outstanding Explorer]
    Okay thanks.
  • 737-800737-800 Posts: 13 [Outstanding Explorer]
    Just thought I’d pass on the map situ from TT.
    The guy from Renault in Portugal as been fantastic at getting on the case of TT. They put the Europe maps onto our Home account and downloaded them so we now know how to get out of our road.

    But here’s the really wears thing....
    No speed camera warnings showed up on a route that had them. So I changed the map to the original backed up one from when we first got the car and now it copied and was seen by the device. I loaded all the various POI we use and they all show up...splendid. So let’s make a copy of this wonderful SD card using a brand new 32g card and yes you know what’s coming...
    maps on the new card not allowed.
    What??? So I put the Europe map back on and it worked fine.
    So the exact same - file for file - transfer will not work because it the map. Card 1 fine card 2 can’t use maps. Naturally I’m not going to TT or Renault but for crying out loud why is one card not allowed into the device when it has EXACTLY the same files on it.
    Is there a secret link up with the card and the device? It definitely all surrounds the map file.
    Anyway that’s where we are at but I would dearly like to know what’s happening. All I can think of is in the loop directory when the card is first introduced to the device.
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