Fitness age and VO2max - some questions

Krzysiek17
Krzysiek17 Registered Users Posts: 51
Outstanding Wayfarer
edited January 24 in TomTom Sports
Hi there,

I'm really happy that TomTom tries to develop its app and I really like the idea o Fitness age but I have some questions...

1. Yesterday I was running for about 20 minutes (average hr 150) and I got 1148 points for that. Immediately after it I started my martial art training - I did it for one hour (average hr 137) and I got only 91 points for that! Is this the way it shoul be?!

2. My fitness age is 31 (in fact I'm 41 so probably I should be happy with it) but... at the same time my VO2max is 43 which just the bottom line for 'good' for my present age. So now I'm confused.... VO2 level is not impressive but the difference in actual age versus fitness age is quite big.

What are your thoughts on the subject on Fitness Age i VO2 max?

Regards!
:cool:
«1

Comments

  • tfarabaugh
    tfarabaugh Posts: 16,943
     Superuser
    Fitness points are based on the heart rate zone you are in and if you are not in at least Zone 2 you will get very little points. In addition, the more points you get, the harder t is to get more, so this is likely why you get less for your second workout. VO2Max is a guess at best and pretty worthless in my experience. Every device I have has a different number so it is impossible to know which is right. I don't personally need a computer algorithm to tell me if I am in shape or not so I ignore it.

    I hope this helped answer your question. If so, please mark it as a solution so others can look for it if they have the same question.
  • cheekychimp
    cheekychimp Registered Users Posts: 209
     Superuser
    Tom Tom is using Firstbeat Technologies V02 estimation method. This method is biased towards running (and cycling) and will only utilise "valid segments of HR data that the algorithms can use". Martial Arts training will not give you "valid HR data" due to the general nature of that activity having irregular explosive movements which could simulate weight training and sudden increases and decreases in your heart rate may be seen as you stopping for a red traffic light and taking off again when it's green. You also did not say under which activity type you did the recording under for Martial Arts. Besides, a second activity on the same day will give you less even for the same duration and intensity and the same activity as the algorithms would factor in things like cardiac drift (eg: your effort no longer matches the heart rate zone you in). Generally a case of the law of diminishing returns will apply and fitness points will be less forthcoming. If you interested in getting fitness points the best way would be to do regular, higher intensity, shorter, HR based activities in more controlled conditions.

    The fitness points, age (and V02 estimation) should be simply seen as motivation for one to become fitter. It's just numbers at the end of the day to motivate you. If you really want your V02 max then have it lab tested. If you really want to validate your personal self worth regards your fitness then partaking in seeded timed races will quickly tell you where you stand. Majority of us here are not elite athletes. Tom Tom has introduced these features to help you get fitter using numbers in a more fun and understandable manner.

    The upcoming Workouts feature is the other side of the puzzle, which I believe is the real deal and if customisation of workouts is allowed in a simple effective manner - that will elevate the watch to become far more practical than reviewing your stats and numbers and saying to yourself ... "and now what?"
  • Krzysiek17
    Krzysiek17 Registered Users Posts: 51
    Outstanding Wayfarer
    Thanks for your great answer!

    One more question - today after my next training I got info that i improved my fitness age.
    It changed from 31 to 32 :D
    I'm not sure if I should recognise it as an improvement :D
    Is it the way it should be?
  • cheekychimp
    cheekychimp Registered Users Posts: 209
     Superuser
    Maybe your Fitness Age is 23 :D. Perhaps review your Fitness Age once a month, or every quarter. The algorithms may just finally understand your training habits only after some time :?
  • ZuzanaK
    ZuzanaK Registered Users Posts: 8
    Master Explorer
    I don't get it to. I compared two exercises: I have 33 minutes of gym with 511 points (135 hrm), and 60 minutes of gym with 400 points (132 hrm). This does not make too much sense to me.

    My fitness age is 49, though I am 15 years younger :D I do not feel motivated :D It's just for fun I guess :)
  • Astrid71
    Astrid71 Registered Users Posts: 9
    Apprentice Traveler
    Where do you see your age? I only see the points I get.
    Don't understand
  • ZuzanaK
    ZuzanaK Registered Users Posts: 8
    Master Explorer
    In mobile app go to Trends. There is a Fitness age section.
  • STEVENM1000
    STEVENM1000 Registered Users Posts: 19
    Outstanding Wayfarer
    ZuzanaK wrote:
    In mobile app go to Trends. There is a Fitness age section.

    I too do not see a fitness age.
    I have been to the trends section and it does not appear.
    I scroll down to the bottom and my last metric displayed is my sleep.
    It is not through lack of points either as I have been accumulated them for over a week.
    I have emailed Tom Tom, but I have not received a reply or solution.
  • VikramK
    VikramK Administrators Posts: 13,815
    Moderator
    STEVENM1000 wrote:
    ZuzanaK wrote:
    In mobile app go to Trends. There is a Fitness age section.

    I too do not see a fitness age.
    I have been to the trends section and it does not appear.
    I scroll down to the bottom and my last metric displayed is my sleep.
    It is not through lack of points either as I have been accumulated them for over a week.
    I have emailed Tom Tom, but I have not received a reply or solution.

    Your case has been pick by the customer service, so I think you should receive a response today.

    Sorry about the delay..

    Regards
    Vikram
  • Daniel B
    Daniel B Registered Users Posts: 3
    Apprentice Traveler
    https://uk.support.tomtom.com/app/answers/detail/a_id/25118

    "What is VO2 max? VO2 max is the maximum amount of oxygen your body can utilise during exercise, per kilogram of body weight, per minute. It is a gold standard for measuring your overall aerobic fitness level.

    A high VO2max means being able to exercise for prolonged periods at a higher performance level. Studies show that individuals with a high cardiovascular fitness and a high VO2max, tend to live longer and have a much lower risk of cardiovascular and other diseases."

    so VO2max isn't your age.
  • STEVENM1000
    STEVENM1000 Registered Users Posts: 19
    Outstanding Wayfarer
    VikramK wrote:
    STEVENM1000 wrote:
    ZuzanaK wrote:
    In mobile app go to Trends. There is a Fitness age section.

    I too do not see a fitness age.
    I have been to the trends section and it does not appear.
    I scroll down to the bottom and my last metric displayed is my sleep.
    It is not through lack of points either as I have been accumulated them for over a week.
    I have emailed Tom Tom, but I have not received a reply or solution.

    Your case has been pick by the customer service, so I think you should receive a response today.

    Sorry about the delay..

    Regards
    Vikram

    HI,
    Well that was a waste of time contacting TOMTOM support.
    Apparently as I do not do outdoor running or cycling it will not display my fitness age.
    So why do I earn fitness points and get the message saying my fitness age is improving, but does not display it on the metrics.
    No wonder they are not selling their watches with software like this.
  • STEVENM1000
    STEVENM1000 Registered Users Posts: 19
    Outstanding Wayfarer
    I have come to the conclusion I have been told a load of rubbish by TOMTOM support.
    It does not state on the futness age guidelines other activities do not count to obtain your fitness age.
    It is down to earning points which I have done all along.
    It is a shame as I like the watch and the push button operation instead of swiping as with most trackers.
    Unfortunatley the software and customer support let it down badly.
    I will be ditching it soon when I find an alternative.
  • Michael Procter
    Michael Procter Registered Users Posts: 35
    Master Traveler
    Before I had the software rolled back to 1.3.255, from 1.6, my fitness age was 20. That sounds great though in reality, I'm close to 3 times that!!! My Vo2 was very good and my recovery time is good. All that I can deduce from that it that I'm fairly fit, with a resting heart rate in the mid 40's.

    I guess it is a bit of fun. All my runs were between 500 & 800 points. I look forward to trying out the personalised workouts once they have fixed the bluetooth syncing issue.
  • Torrespain
    Torrespain Registered Users Posts: 3
    Neophyte Traveler
    Hi all! I got my Spark 3 3 weeks ago and so far, I am very pleased with it. I would like to ask for some help regarding the fitness age and the VO2Max.
    This week I finally got 3 stars in 2 sessions of indoor cycling and 1 of gym but I'm still not able to see any data for my fitness age or my VO2Max in the body statistics, they are both empty.

    Could you please indicate me how to make those stats appear? I have the watch and the phone app updated to the last version.

    Thanks in advance!
  • xray79
    xray79 Registered Users Posts: 160
    Renowned Wayfarer
    Torrespain wrote:
    Hi all! I got my Spark 3 3 weeks ago and so far, I am very pleased with it. I would like to ask for some help regarding the fitness age and the VO2Max.
    This week I finally got 3 stars in 2 sessions of indoor cycling and 1 of gym but I'm still not able to see any data for my fitness age or my VO2Max in the body statistics, they are both empty.

    Could you please indicate me how to make those stats appear? I have the watch and the phone app updated to the last version.

    Thanks in advance!
    You do not see the lines indicating the fit age or Vo2Max when you open the app or the webpage? Did you do any outdoor runs with HR measured? There are not much more stats shown when you look at these screens and you should consider them as a gimmick not a real measurement.
  • Torrespain
    Torrespain Registered Users Posts: 3
    Neophyte Traveler
    Correct, I see those options but they are blank, if I click on them it says no data for this time period.
    I haven't done any outside run yet, but I thought as far as the HR was enabled it would work (all my activities have been indoor cycling and gym)
  • xray79
    xray79 Registered Users Posts: 160
    Renowned Wayfarer
    Torrespain wrote:
    Correct, I see those options but they are blank, if I click on them it says no data for this time period.
    I haven't done any outside run yet, but I thought as far as the HR was enabled it would work (all my activities have been indoor cycling and gym)
    Have a look here https://uk.support.tomtom.com/app/answers/detail/a_id/25118/kw/fit age
    I think you should do an outdoor run or cycle activity or a treadmill run for more than 15 minutes with HR and GPS (when outdoors) NOt sure how many you would need to get the lines visible. But the more runs you do the better the estimate will be.
  • Wernher
    Wernher Registered Users Posts: 7
    Master Explorer
    As far as I am concerned this whole fitness age and V02 max thin is a load of bullocks. I am 61, doing in excess of 150 kilometers per week, cycling off-road and earning between 850 to 1600 points per activity. Some days I ride twice to accommodate new riders to get into cycling. Although I have been recording my activities since February this year, my fitness age is still sitting at 69. First of all you can't measure V02 max without a mask that measures you oxygen intake whilst exercising and secondly I have not met a single person my age that can keep up with me, never mind a 69 year old. At first I thought I have to wait for the watch to measure me over time and that I will start seeing an improvement, but this is not happening. So I have decided that these crap measurements are only draining my battery and providing me with worthless information that is completely wrong. Tomtom support didn't even respond to my request for more information. I will therefore just switch this off and enjoy measuring my improvements the old fashioned way, by measuring my improvement in performance against other people that I ride with. At this stage I am the second oldest and fastest and strongest rider in the group which includes riders from 30 to 61 years of age.
  • Zonker69
    Zonker69 Registered Users Posts: 1
    Apprentice Traveler
    Yeah, I agree with several of you. I have had the Runner 3 for two months. I am 70. I do at least 5 days a week combination walk/run for five miles. I regularly get between 800 and 2200 fitness points, but in that time my fitness age has not altered. I do the exercise in the Freestyle mode. From what I have read here I surmise I should be doing it in the Run mode. I am going to try that and see if it works. If that is, in fact, the case it would have been nice if the instructions or manual had said something about that. Every day my fitness points are displayed on my account and every day it says something on the order of "Your Fitness Age is improving rapidly - keep it up!" But there is no change in the Fitness Age metric. I will give the Run mode a try and let you know.....

    Zonker
  • Wernher
    Wernher Registered Users Posts: 7
    Master Explorer
    After some more reading I now found out that the fitness points are calculated based on weight heart rate as well as speed. Therefore if you ride a mountain bike on rough terrain like we do versus a road bike on tarred roads you are a lot slower. This in turns makes your fitness age completely ridiculous. I am as fit as I can get and faster than anybody I have met. In the group that I ride with which now included people of 25 weighing 30 kilos less than me and who is very fit I am the fastes by a country mile and has the most endurance. Still my fitness age is 69 while I am only 60 years old. The points might have a sort of benefit if I want to know how hard I worked compared to other workouts but in my opinion it is worthless and I would have liked to switch it off conpletely as I think it only contributes to battery drain and extremely slow synchronization. I have disabled the tracking on fitness points but it still shows it and seemingly still automatically keeps on tracking it. This is the most worthless feature that TomTom could introduce. If it doesn’t work with a power meter it says nothing and is just nonsense. VO2 Max is also just as inaccurate as it uses the same metrics and therefore will increase if the rider is on a lighter bike on easy tarred surfaces which in both cases is exactly the opposite of the truth.

    Wernher
  • 19Rob04
    19Rob04 Registered Users Posts: 2
    Apprentice Traveler
    Suspect that may be my problem too. I'm 53 and pretty fit (although not as fit as I want so am now marathon training hoping to match PB of 3:15), and yet my dear Tom Tom gives me a fitness age of 64 but allied to Vo2 max of 47 (which on charts is "superior" for man in 50s). Much of my running is done in mountains where 10 minute mileing is a lot tougher than 7 minute on flat roads. Plus living in Wales we don't have anywhere flat :D. Generaly speaking like my Runner 3, but if Tom Tom can't sort out this age and Vo2 thing they should drop it as it's just pissing people off.
  • oomxena
    oomxena Registered Users Posts: 3
    Apprentice Traveler
    I am not so sure it is accurate my actual age is 54 but it has my fitness age as 31, which seems to be a massive difference. the line graph started at 54 then went to 55 and has dropped over weeks to 31. I do train a lot but that is crazy.
  • tfarabaugh
    tfarabaugh Posts: 16,943
     Superuser
    oomxena wrote:
    I am not so sure it is accurate my actual age is 54 but it has my fitness age as 31, which seems to be a massive difference. the line graph started at 54 then went to 55 and has dropped over weeks to 31. I do train a lot but that is crazy.

    i am 48 and my fitness age is 20, so this is not out of the ordinary. It is a useless metric.
  • Mach
    Mach Registered Users Posts: 89
    Outstanding Wayfarer
    oomxena wrote:
    I am not so sure it is accurate my actual age is 54 but it has my fitness age as 31, which seems to be a massive difference. the line graph started at 54 then went to 55 and has dropped over weeks to 31. I do train a lot but that is crazy.
    The fitness age value will simply show you how fit you are. If your fitness age is lower than your actual age, then your training helps you being in better shape than what you would be while not training. Your fitness age will follow your vo2max (aerobic capacity), so if you train more, than your vo2max should grow (to follow increased performance), which will result in lower fitness age. Whether fitness age 31 is totally accurate for you is not that critical I guess.
  • old dog
    old dog Registered Users Posts: 2
    Apprentice Traveler
    It would be great if Fitness Age could be disabled. I jog every day, 3 to 5 miles. Problem is I jog with my dog, and she's not all that fond of running fast unless chasing something (but really wants to go with me). That means a big chunk of my route is running in place. I'm in great shape, but the Fitness Age number is 3 years older than my actual age after almost a month with the Spark 3. I've also observed the heart rate reading while jogging is significantly higher than my real heart rate. Lower heart rates are fairly accurate. I like the device, and find some of the metrics and tracking very useful. A bad Fitness Age display is really annoying though.

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