Swimming - Lap Count Accuracy

Rokys

I did 2 interval trains at my local swimming pool last night, and on both of them I ended with one lap short during a workout section.

By the time it occured the second time I was already on the habit of glancing to the counter after pushing off. It occured right at the start of the workout segment.

Could it be related to me pushing off the wall the moment the watch buzzed for the segment start? Could there be a bug in the code that makes the watch not monitor properly if we start the very instant it buzzes? Because after my second turn/push off (therefore, beginning my third lap), the counter still showed 0 (zero), instead of 1 as it should (accounting for the usual delay in registering the turn).

Has anyone experienced/noticed this behaviour?

tfarabaugh

Rokys wrote:

I did 2 interval trains at my local swimming pool last night, and on both of them I ended with one lap short during a workout section.

By the time it occured the second time I was already on the habit of glancing to the counter after pushing off. It occured right at the start of the workout segment.

Could it be related to me pushing off the wall the moment the watch buzzed for the segment start? Could there be a bug in the code that makes the watch not monitor properly if we start the very instant it buzzes? Because after my second turn/push off (therefore, beginning my third lap), the counter still showed 0 (zero), instead of 1 as it should (accounting for the usual delay in registering the turn).

Has anyone experienced/noticed this behaviour?

Miscounting laps is common with this and every swim watch. It is using an accelerometer to try and figure out when you are reaching for the wall to turn, but you need a very strong turn to trigger it. It also counts after the first turn, so the total is the laps completed so it will always be one short until the end. It is likely you did not register the final lap as you probably coasted to the wall. Make sure on the final lap that you have a strong finishing motion so it registers the movement. It may be worthwhile to simply turn on the final lap and then stop so it registers the turn and hence the lap. You also need to be consistent in your stroke (freestyle works best), do not pause or slow at all mid-lap, among other things. It counts strokes in the same way it counts laps, by the accelerometer, so any variation in stroke may cause it to miss a stroke. Just like with lap counting, it is meant to give a rough estimate, it will never give you a perfect count, the technology just isn't there yet. If you search for swim accuracy or swimming laps and similar phrases on the forums you will see plenty of posts on it with a lot of suggestions to improve it (more than I can repeat here).

I hope this helped answer your question. If so, please mark it as a solution so others can look for it if they have the same question.

Rokys

I thank you for your advices, but I'm well aware of the "algorithm friendly" procedures (been a happy Runner 2 user since it come out). I'm not really complaining, as I understand how difficult it is to get swim detection working correctly.

Anyway, to put it in context: I DO push off with enough strengh (unless a 4/5 meters push off burst is not considered as such), even at the start. Thrust with my legs, arms straight forward, when speed starts to drop, begin stroking. For the second interval workout, I _always_ tapped on the pool wall in a semi-slamming motion. I expected this to be what the software monitors for turn detection (when combined with the a strong push off the wall afterwards). I'm also aware of the delay on the lap count, hence why I expected to read "1" when starting my third lap, instead of "0".

I will try to repeat the "error" in future pratices, to check if I can, reliably, reproduce my suspicion. I intend to do my next swim pratice on wednesday or thursday, so I will try to give additional feedback on this subject.

tfarabaugh

Rokys wrote:

I thank you for your advices, but I'm well aware of the "algorithm friendly" procedures (been a happy Runner 2 user since it come out). I'm not really complaining, as I understand how difficult it is to get swim detection working correctly.

Anyway, to put it in context: I DO push off with enough strengh (unless a 4/5 meters push off burst is not considered as such), even at the start. Thrust with my legs, arms straight forward, when speed starts to drop, begin stroking. For the second interval workout, I _always_ tapped on the pool wall in a semi-slamming motion. I expected this to be what the software monitors for turn detection (when combined with the a strong push off the wall afterwards). I'm also aware of the delay on the lap count, hence why I expected to read "1" when starting my third lap, instead of "0".

I will try to repeat the "error" in future pratices, to check if I can, reliably, reproduce my suspicion. I intend to do my next swim pratice on wednesday or thursday, so I will try to give additional feedback on this subject.

As long as you have a thrusting motion at the end it should pick it up as a turn and count a lap.

DavyVL

Strange, i do not push off at all (have bad knees, i need to turn softly) and on my spark 3 the laps are counted correctly. As soon as i stop, i feel the watch buzzing and it counts a new lap.

Rokys

Tested my suspicion, with 1 lap series, and 25" rest between series. Couldn't replicate the issue (not counting the first lap), after half of dozen tries. Which means the issues I had in that session were just a fluke occurence.

Rokys

DavyVL wrote:

Strange, i do not push off at all (have bad knees, i need to turn softly) and on my spark 3 the laps are counted correctly. As soon as i stop, i feel the watch buzzing and it counts a new lap.

That as also been my general experience, that the firmware has come a long way, from its buggy beginnings, and that it works really well, even if you don't do it the "proper way". I just thought it was too much of a coincidence. But apparently it was...

calliari

I bought mine 6 months ago, since this I swim 3 times a week, at least 3.000 meters per training, it always count less then the real distance, I already tried a lot of things.
If a do a training with so many intervals its performance is very bad, on continuous training the error is smaller.

calliari

I'm thinking about move to a Garmin, since there is no expectation about TomTom solve this... It's a lot of time since last software update.

koko7

hi to the team....i have the same problem it counts one lap less...is there any solution from the tom tom company??? do we know if other sport watches like suunto or garmin have the same problem??

calliari

Only one lap? If mine counts only one lap less I would be happy.
I have a friend that has a Garmin 920xt and says that it always counts perfectly

Fenella

Hi, I have this problem, I have found it is nothing to do with start, or end of the swim. This is my second watch, I sent the first one back because of this issue, I thought the £150+ price was a lot to pay for inaccuracy. So anyway, today I watched it during each tumble turn, and there, right in the middle, it didn't register, so I am now feeling totally fed up. If anyone can come up with the answer, please share!

fio

My Spark 3 has similar issue, in particular it doesn't count any lap when I swim not moving the arm that wears the watch (ex: with kickboard).

tfarabaugh

fio wrote:

My Spark 3 has similar issue, in particular it doesn't count any lap when I swim not moving the arm that wears the watch (ex: with kickboard).

That is expected since it is using the accelerometer in the watch to determine strokes and since your arm is not moving the watch is not detecting anything. It is a watch so your arms need to move for it to detect movement.

MiguelVillarta

I bought at the same time watches RUNNER 3 and ADVENTURER. Surprisingly RUNNER 3 is always precise and never misses any lap. ADVENTURER does both things sometimes misses one or two laps or sometimes add one or two laps. I always swim freestyle and swim around 2.000m each session. I don't understand why is different but it is

engant

i wonder if there is a trick in freestyle swimming of getting accurate counts. I noticed that the watch after 600-700 m of swimming starts to miscounts the laps while my style doesnt change. Always but always i have a miscounting in 2000m distance i swim. If you suggest any good way of turning on the wall so as to have better counting please share it with me

GrahamG123

Fenella wrote: »

Hi, I have this problem, I have found it is nothing to do with start, or end of the swim. This is my second watch, I sent the first one back because of this issue, I thought the £150+ price was a lot to pay for inaccuracy. So anyway, today I watched it during each tumble turn, and there, right in the middle, it didn't register, so I am now feeling totally fed up. If anyone can come up with the answer, please share!

Suggest buy something else. I have never been able to get any where near accurate swimming laps. I swim a lot 4 times a week, it is good for recording that you went for a swim, but the distance is so far off.
Yes I push off the wall hard, Yes I have hard reset the watch, Yes I hit the wall hard with the hand at the end of the lap.
If it was just 1 lap out I would be ecstatic, but seriously 500m out after 30 minutes. That's just unforgivable.
I'm saving up for a decent watch not a toy. The calibration for a treadmill is also always way off. Yes I have hard reset. Yes I'm fed up with changing the distance after every treadmill session too.
Not a good watch at all. In my opinion it's a waste of money to buy a TomTom watch. You can record the same thing more accurately in a journal yourself.

GrahamG123

tfarabaugh wrote: »

Rokys wrote:

I thank you for your advices, but I'm well aware of the "algorithm friendly" procedures (been a happy Runner 2 user since it come out). I'm not really complaining, as I understand how difficult it is to get swim detection working correctly.

Anyway, to put it in context: I DO push off with enough strengh (unless a 4/5 meters push off burst is not considered as such), even at the start. Thrust with my legs, arms straight forward, when speed starts to drop, begin stroking. For the second interval workout, I _always_ tapped on the pool wall in a semi-slamming motion. I expected this to be what the software monitors for turn detection (when combined with the a strong push off the wall afterwards). I'm also aware of the delay on the lap count, hence why I expected to read "1" when starting my third lap, instead of "0".

I will try to repeat the "error" in future pratices, to check if I can, reliably, reproduce my suspicion. I intend to do my next swim pratice on wednesday or thursday, so I will try to give additional feedback on this subject.

As long as you have a thrusting motion at the end it should pick it up as a turn and count a lap.

Nah, the thrusting motion you speak of does not work, sorry this is not an adequate answer. I have tried every type of push off the wall imaginable. I do tumble turn and have done so in a squad for many years (just stating I'm not an amateur or a newbie to swimming). Terrible watch for swimming, awful and only good for recording you went for a swim, distance is useless, splits are inaccurate.

MikePr

I have the same problem with my Runner 3. Every swim session it always misses the last length of a set, so all my records are incorrect and have no way of checking performance. There has been no software update for over a year now so guess TomTom have given up on fixing this type of issue. Oh well may look to invest in a Garmin or Apple Watch.

tfarabaugh

MikePr wrote: »

I have the same problem with my Runner 3. Every swim session it always misses the last length of a set, so all my records are incorrect and have no way of checking performance. There has been no software update for over a year now so guess TomTom have given up on fixing this type of issue. Oh well may look to invest in a Garmin or Apple Watch.

Considering that TomTom Sports went out of business well over a year ago and ceased all production and development it is not surprising there have been no updates, the watch is dead. And there has never been an update to swimming as it was far and away the least used sports mode on the watch so there was little demand for it.