TomTom Runner- GPS not accurate

Pluto HenkPluto Henk Posts: 1 [New Traveler]
edited June 19 in Runner & Multi-Sport
Hi Since a couple of weeks back my tomtom runner is not tracking my run very accurately, its off by several hundred meters over a 2 km part.
Specifically in a forrest area. I think it started after the latest firmware update.

Has anybody else noticed this?

Comments

  • tfarabaughtfarabaugh Posts: 15,717 Superusers
    Pluto Henk wrote:
    Hi Since a couple of weeks back my tomtom runner is not tracking my run very accurately, its off by several hundred meters over a 2 km part.
    Specifically in a forrest area. I think it started after the latest firmware update.

    Has anybody else noticed this?

    It will always be challenged under lots of tree cover, but think they referenced on another post that there is a GPS accuracy issue this is being fixed in an upcoming update but they have given no indication of when that might be.

    I hope this helps, please let me know if this answered your question. If it did, please mark it as a solution so others can look for it if they have the same question.
  • gball31gball31 Posts: 1 [Apprentice Traveler]
    Yeah mine has been off as well. London marathon my watch said that i ran 26.69 miles.....now i know there is always a bit extra but half a mile?
    The watch beeped for the first mile way before i reached the official marker and this carried on until the end.
  • Balb0waBalb0wa Posts: 17 [Outstanding Explorer]
    gball31 wrote:
    Yeah mine has been off as well. London marathon my watch said that i ran 26.69 miles.....now i know there is always a bit extra but half a mile?
    The watch beeped for the first mile way before i reached the official marker and this carried on until the end.

    The london marathon is dodgy for gps, lots of high buildings canary wharf area, that dont play nicely with the gps
  • tfarabaughtfarabaugh Posts: 15,717 Superusers
    gball31 wrote:
    Yeah mine has been off as well. London marathon my watch said that i ran 26.69 miles.....now i know there is always a bit extra but half a mile?
    The watch beeped for the first mile way before i reached the official marker and this carried on until the end.

    That is actually expected and I am surprised you were only .5 miles off. Race distance is based on the ideal line taken 18" from the curb, taking every tangent and never deviating from this track. They also add 1 meter per kilometer to ensure it is not under in distance for certification purposes. Since in reality you were not running at the curb, were going around other runners, crossing the road to get water, taking the turns wide, etc., you were likely at least 1/2 mile long. Even the elites do not finish in 26.2 miles.
  • DragonflyWalesDragonflyWales Posts: 3 [Neophyte Traveler]
    London Marathon for me was 27 miles and with the having to weave around the walkers I believe it to be accurate.
  • stvnhgstvnhg Posts: 18 [Outstanding Explorer]
    tfarabaugh wrote:
    Pluto Henk wrote:
    Hi Since a couple of weeks back my tomtom runner is not tracking my run very accurately, its off by several hundred meters over a 2 km part.
    Specifically in a forrest area. I think it started after the latest firmware update.

    Has anybody else noticed this?

    It will always be challenged under lots of tree cover, but think they referenced on another post that there is a GPS accuracy issue this is being fixed in an upcoming update but they have given no indication of when that might be.

    I hope this helps, please let me know if this answered your question. If it did, please mark it as a solution so others can look for it if they have the same question.

    exactly the same issue here. also in forrest. Hope they release a fix soon.
  • stvnhgstvnhg Posts: 18 [Outstanding Explorer]
    This is really annoying. I have been using my watch over the last 2 years on the same run and now since the update the gps is incorrect. It's several hundred of meters on a 6k run. This not normal behavior. Already tried factory reset but no luck, issue remains. Any update on this from the support team?

    Pluto henk. Still having the same issue or did you somehow solve it?
  • JürgenJürgen Posts: 4,773 Community Manager
    stvnhg wrote:
    This is really annoying. I have been using my watch over the last 2 years on the same run and now since the update the gps is incorrect. It's several hundred of meters on a 6k run. This not normal behavior. Already tried factory reset but no luck, issue remains. Any update on this from the support team?

    Pluto henk. Still having the same issue or did you somehow solve it?
    If you have this issue since the last update than the software probably did not install properly. You should force the watch into recovery mode to reinstall the software. Below the FAQ in French and Dutch:
    http://fr.support.tomtom.com/app/answers/detail/a_id/17581/#recovery-mode
    http://nl.support.tomtom.com/app/answers/detail/a_id/17704/#recovery-mode
  • stvnhgstvnhg Posts: 18 [Outstanding Explorer]
    I just came back from my run and the problem is not solved. To answer to all your questions. The gps receiver is always face upwards. i wear the watch on my wrist, it is never covered and it is used outdoors. Battery is always 100% and I always update the quickGPS before I go for a run. This way I always have the latest software.

    I already did a factory reset before, which didn't help, but I did it again following your instructions. This time I forced the watch in recovery mode and then did the factory reset like you asked. The problem is still the same. The tomtom gpx tracked 7.24km and the actual route was 8.2km. That's almost 1km difference. I would upload them here but I can't. If you would see both gpx files on a map you would see that it is totally incorrect and not related to trees having too much leaves.

    This watch was tracking very good over the last 2 years in the exact same forest. I can even show you the exact same run one year ago which tracked correctly. The forest trees didn't change but ever since the v1.8.52 update it's just plain incorrect.

    Any advice how I can fix this? Thanks!
  • rtomrtom Posts: 1 [Apprentice Traveler]
    I've been seeing very similar behaviour with 1.8.52 (as attached).

    The inset in the bottom left corner shows how my regular run used to be tracked. It's a cyclepath with some tree cover so visibility isn't perfect but prior to 1.8.52 this tracked pretty much dead-on every time.

    After the update, on the same route, I see the run on the top right corner. Going out it's fine, as soon as I reach the turn point it starts to swing off as if the whole track was rotated by a few degrees (sending me through houses, over roads, through walls, etc). This happens on several different routes - going out is accurate, the run back starts to swing away.

    Is there any way to downgrade to the previous firmware?
  • LuggistrasLuggistras Posts: 2 [Apprentice Traveler]
    I'm having an almost identical problem. Have been jogging exactly the same route for the past several months in the forest as well. Have done it quite a few times with iPhone 6 which consistently records a distance of 10.4 k, my tomtom runner used to track it as 10K which I was more or less Ok with as I guess iPhone technology is far more accurate. However since getting a replacement runner cardio watch (cracked screen) the distance has gone down to 9.7 km something that is intensely annoying. I can quite clearly see parts of my route (when comparing it with my iPhone tracked route) where it's gone completely wrong but it seems there's nothing that can be done about it. Two questions therefore : is it possible to manually adjust the route afterwards? You can manually adjust the distance but I wasn't able to tweak the route. Alternatively does anyone know whether it's possible to pre-load a given route and force the watch to use the pre-loaded distance ? Any advice much appreciated!
  • tfarabaughtfarabaugh Posts: 15,717 Superusers
    Luggistras wrote:
    I'm having an almost identical problem. Have been jogging exactly the same route for the past several months in the forest as well. Have done it quite a few times with iPhone 6 which consistently records a distance of 10.4 k, my tomtom runner used to track it as 10K which I was more or less Ok with as I guess iPhone technology is far more accurate. However since getting a replacement runner cardio watch (cracked screen) the distance has gone down to 9.7 km something that is intensely annoying. I can quite clearly see parts of my route (when comparing it with my iPhone tracked route) where it's gone completely wrong but it seems there's nothing that can be done about it. Two questions therefore : is it possible to manually adjust the route afterwards? You can manually adjust the distance but I wasn't able to tweak the route. Alternatively does anyone know whether it's possible to pre-load a given route and force the watch to use the pre-loaded distance ? Any advice much appreciated!

    You cannot tweak the route, only the totals unfortunately. The only software I know of that allows this is the SportTracks desktop version, none of the web based platform will allow you to do this. You can also not preload a track to force it to follow.
  • stvnhgstvnhg Posts: 18 [Outstanding Explorer]
    Had to send it to support. Since the warranty period was expired I had to pay 50 euro to fix it. They said they could not fix it so they send a new one. Problem is solved now.

    Just want to add it was not the software. I tried with my wife's watch and there it tracked correctly. It was definitely a hardware issue in my case.
  • LuggistrasLuggistras Posts: 2 [Apprentice Traveler]
    Thanks for that. The thing is I did a 10K road race a couple of months ago and my tomtom got the distance spot on so I can't say it's a hardware issue. It just seems to have a huge problem tracking forest runs. Yesterday I did a longer run in the forest to make sure it was more than 10K - my tomtom tracked it as 11.2K whereas my jogging partner's iphone 6+ tracked it as 12.3K. I don't see why there should be such a glaring difference between the two but I'm just going to have to resign myself I guess to the poor tracking abilities of my watch in the forest :(((
  • tfarabaughtfarabaugh Posts: 15,717 Superusers
    Luggistras wrote:
    Thanks for that. The thing is I did a 10K road race a couple of months ago and my tomtom got the distance spot on so I can't say it's a hardware issue. It just seems to have a huge problem tracking forest runs. Yesterday I did a longer run in the forest to make sure it was more than 10K - my tomtom tracked it as 11.2K whereas my jogging partner's iphone 6+ tracked it as 12.3K. I don't see why there should be such a glaring difference between the two but I'm just going to have to resign myself I guess to the poor tracking abilities of my watch in the forest :(((

    Be aware the watch uses 2D distance and the phone may be usign 3D (through an altimeter). If so and if it was a hilly run, the one with the 3D distance will always register higher.
  • dermotocdermotoc Posts: 9 [Legendary Explorer]
    ??*******So is this a hardware issue?******??

    I've been living with same issue - detailed in https://en.discussions.tomtom.com/runner-multi-sport-184/tomtom-multisport-gps-runbike-splits-broken-with-and-bike-speed-incorrect-1003409.

    I followed tfarabaugh's instructions above around reseting the firmware image (https://en.discussions.tomtom.com/runner-multi-sport-184/tomtom-runner-gps-not-accurate-1000133?postid=1089689) and it seemed to work at the time, but has been re-occurring since.

    Here is a bike activity from a couple of days ago where the GPS splits are shown like this - https://en.discussions.tomtom.com/runner-multi-sport-184/tomtom-runner-gps-not-accurate-1000133?postid=1089689.

    Apparently I did the 3rd km in 15 seconds at 197.85km/h..... :cool:
  • gl00gl00 Posts: 965 [Revered Pioneer]
    GPS only devices have some issues when it comes to tracking when you pass under something that's dense enough to block satellite signals (bridge, tunnel, dense folliage) or near something that can reflect GPS signal (tall building, cliff...) in the first case, they would loose signal completely and catch up some time later, explaining the speed spikes, in the second the signal will be deviated, making the watch think you are running further than where you actually are... considering the technology used, there is not much Tomtom can do.

    in these condions, some phones can give better results as they also locate themselves using cellphone and wifi networks, but in my experience, these phones will give poor results when these networks are in lower density (away from city centers): they would then tend to locate me at the nearest cellphone tower, often a few Kilometers away, and only start to give me a better position after several minutes...
    I fear I didn't find a device that would track accurately in ALL conditions so far, so we probably have to make with these occasional glitches until then.
  • dermotocdermotoc Posts: 9 [Legendary Explorer]
    gl00 wrote:
    GPS only devices have some issues when it comes to tracking when you pass under something that's dense enough to block satellite signals (bridge, tunnel, dense folliage) or near something that can reflect GPS signal (tall building, cliff...) in the first case, they would loose signal completely and catch up some time later, explaining the speed spikes, in the second the signal will be deviated, making the watch think you are running further than where you actually are... considering the technology used, there is not much Tomtom can do.

    in these condions, some phones can give better results as they also locate themselves using cellphone and wifi networks, but in my experience, these phones will give poor results when these networks are in lower density (away from city centers): they would then tend to locate me at the nearest cellphone tower, often a few Kilometers away, and only start to give me a better position after several minutes...
    I fear I didn't find a device that would track accurately in ALL conditions so far, so we probably have to make with these occasional glitches until then.


    All fair and accurate - but the key point here is *the GPS data* does not seem to be the problem - it's the interpretation of said data appears to be the problem. When the same base data is synched to Runkeeper, MapMyRun, Strava, etc... the splits are smoothed and relatively accurate.

    So to my mind, if the base GPS data is able to be interpreted by other platforms - TomTom have an optimization to make in their software to do the same?
  • tfarabaughtfarabaugh Posts: 15,717 Superusers
    dermotoc wrote:
    gl00 wrote:
    GPS only devices have some issues when it comes to tracking when you pass under something that's dense enough to block satellite signals (bridge, tunnel, dense folliage) or near something that can reflect GPS signal (tall building, cliff...) in the first case, they would loose signal completely and catch up some time later, explaining the speed spikes, in the second the signal will be deviated, making the watch think you are running further than where you actually are... considering the technology used, there is not much Tomtom can do.

    in these condions, some phones can give better results as they also locate themselves using cellphone and wifi networks, but in my experience, these phones will give poor results when these networks are in lower density (away from city centers): they would then tend to locate me at the nearest cellphone tower, often a few Kilometers away, and only start to give me a better position after several minutes...
    I fear I didn't find a device that would track accurately in ALL conditions so far, so we probably have to make with these occasional glitches until then.


    All fair and accurate - but the key point here is *the GPS data* does not seem to be the problem - it's the interpretation of said data appears to be the problem. When the same base data is synched to Runkeeper, MapMyRun, Strava, etc... the splits are smoothed and relatively accurate.

    So to my mind, if the base GPS data is able to be interpreted by other platforms - TomTom have an optimization to make in their software to do the same?

    Those other platforms are applying their own algorithms to smooth the data, thereby essentially changing your results, whereas TT is showing you the true data. Some would say that is the preferrably method as you are seeing the truth, not another platform's interpretation of the truth. Some of them, like Strava, make material changes to the data, changing the length, the duration and every metric, which I do not like. If you like RunKeeper's optimization better, then you are free to use RK, your are nto obligated to use MySports. In fact, TT has been very open with allowing their data to be extracted to wherever you want and in whatever format you want, so you can use whatever one you prefer the most.
  • dermotocdermotoc Posts: 9 [Legendary Explorer]
    It's not a question of wanting to use another I have invested in the TT Platfrom with a multi-sport cardio watch.

    The point is that by TT choosing to represent the raw true data, in all these cases where GPS trips the results in MySports and also the in run/bike avg. pace etc are borked.

    Makes the actual user experience of the watch and platform analytics hit or miss.

    During a run I have a watch telling me my avg. pace is sub 3mins is just not correct?
  • stvnhgstvnhg Posts: 18 [Outstanding Explorer]
    Unfortunately, the problem is back. Today I did a run with 2 identical multisport watches. My wife's multisport tracked the 6.2km correct. But my already replaced out of warranty 50euro multisport tracked only 5.8km. It seems to be the same issue as last year.

    I don't want to send it again and pay another 50euro's to fix it. What could be the problem? Both watches have the same software version and I have done a reset multiple times.
  • marcusblackcatmarcusblackcat Posts: 1 [Apprentice Seeker]
    What I have now found with mine, which I have had for a couple of years, is that the "laps" buzz is not happening after 1km/2km etc. I have it set as a 1km lap and it'snormally around 100m late for the first km and, by the time I hit 5km, it's not telling me I've gone past 4km until after the 5th!

    Going to wipe it tonight and see if that sorts it - always found the GPS a little ropey - but they're only ever as accurate as the satellite signal they receive so hey ho.
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