topic Re: FIrst Impression of Eclipse II on Subaru Forester in Built-in car navigation

FIrst Impression of Eclipse II on Subaru Forester

Seattleite — Sun, 05 Jun 2011 05:05:19 GMT

While I usually don't post to boards such as this, my day long frustration and disappointment with the TomTom Eclipse II in our new Subaru Forester is prompting me to post this warning to all consumers who are considering selecting this option on the Subaru. I've spent the better part of an entire Saturday, trying to set up.... with limited success.... the TomTom Eclipse II that came with our new car. Here's a list of the problems I have dealt with today:

1) When the unit booted up for the first time, all the on-screen menu language was in Dutch (I think). It was supposed to let you choose what language you want to use. But it didn't The instruction manual was no help at all. It just said to select your language preference on first boot up. I wish that I had been able to. The next three hours was spent online, on the phone with the dealer, playing with the device, trying to do anything at all ... including resetting it five times.... to get the language changed. The dealer was no help at all.... Their suggestion was to order a new unit and hope that it asked for a language preference when it booted up for the first time. Finally.... Finally.... I found a language preference option, buried deep, deep, on the eighth page of an on-screen submenu. That's right.... 8 pages deep into a sub-menu all written in Dutch. (I think I can almost speak the **bleep** language now, after this)

2) Users manual is horrible. Extremely abbreviated instructions are insufficient to guide you. Website is worse. Why doesn't TomTom put the name of their product on the product....or on the box. You have to enter the serial number to even find out what product you own. That took another 15 minutes to figure out.

3) The Dutch product liability lawyers apparently had too much to do with the on-screen menu planning. Half the stuff you need to adjust isn't available on-screen unless the car is stopped, in park and the parking brake on. After three hours messing with the thing, I found a way to override that and get the necessary menus to work while the car is driving. Obviously you have to be careful and not get distracted. But it's not always safe to stop in the middle of traffic, put the car in park, apply the brake, so that you can adjust a setting either. I wonder how many accidents that will cause!

4) It was a rare sunny day in Seattle. Really a pleasure..... Except that in the bright sun the TomTom screen is impossible to see. No amount of brightness adjustment could fix it. Just glare. This renders the device absolutely useless in the sun. Good thing I live in Seattle. I'll be able to use the TomTom about 70 percent of the time. You live in Phoenix..... fuggitaboutit.

5) If you turn on the headlights, the screen goes to the black night time option. This is stupid. It should just have a light sensor like my Garmin did and when it gets a certain level of dark outside, it makes the shift. Really bad feature of this device.

6) This is supposed to be an integrated unit with the Radio and CD.... But it doesn't turn down the Radio or CD volume when he directions voice is giving instructions. What kind of integration is that?

In short.....I'm really, really disappointed and sickened that I spent as much money as I did to buy this option for the new car. I thought it would be nice to have a built in, integrated unit..... And I'm going to give it a try..... Maybe I can get used to it.... (as long as it's a cloudy day and I can see the screen) But I have a very strong suspician, that I'll be mounting the old Garmin on its windsheild suction mount like I did with my old car. At least it works. And I could buy ten of 'em for what I paid for this TomTom nightmare.

What a pitiful shame...... Shame, shame, shame, on the people who designed this TomTom travesty and sent it to market..... and shame, shame, shame, on Subaru for putting in in their cars!

Re: FIrst Impression of Eclipse II on Subaru Forester

Elliot — Sun, 12 Jun 2011 12:15:44 GMT

I agree with your first impression - I feel much the same. I cannot believe I spent so much money are a device that is faulty in so many ways.

PLEASE let me know how you were able to override the system! I almost had to order a new device from the dealer because I could not scroll among my ipod playlists (until I learned that I had to be in park with the parking break on). This is ridiculous - especially since an ipod can be connected through the AUX feature and allows scrolling.

I'm planning a long car trip tomorrow and I don't want to have to keep pulling off the road to a complete stop with the parking break on to change on feature of the GPS. Please let me know how to override this.

Thank you!

Re: FIrst Impression of Eclipse II on Subaru Forester

schmatti — Wed, 15 Jun 2011 21:42:24 GMT

Pull up slightly on the parking brake and you will likely find you can scroll, watch video, etc.. From what I have read online, there is some kind of switch in the parking brake that resticts the Tomtom devise when the car is in motion. I have wedged an eyeglasses case (held up just slightly by the seats on either side) under the parking brake handle just enough to switch the Tomtom into user friendly mode but NOT enough to engage the brake. Play with it and you will see what I mean. Also, please write to Subaru (this is a Subaru thing - not a Tomtom thing). I wrote to them and they basically blew me off with the usual song and dance about distracted drivers. I told them they should remove all the seats from the car except the drivers seat as passengers could distract the driver. Funny, I never heard back from them. Still. I wish more people would give them feedback. My front passenger (teen girl) NEEDS to be able to pick songs! :O)

I've been using this thing for 2 months now and finally have the hang of it. Pretty good little divise but it did take some time to get used to it.

Re: FIrst Impression of Eclipse II on Subaru Forester

Petethecat — Wed, 29 Jun 2011 12:42:27 GMT

I second most all of what has been said here and will add some more. I own two Subarus and just bought a 2011 with the TomTom and am really really disappointed. The algorithms for route planning and time estimation are pure fantasy--at least where I live here in Maine----and Subaru's are practically the official state car in Maine. I have reloaded the software, updated the maps, reset all the preferences (to ensure it is set on the fastest route, with toll roads,) and STILL the thing sends me substantially out of the way (20-40% out of the way), with unrealistically long travel times (20% to 60%), for every trip I have programmed in the first 2000 miles. I am not sure what is wrong. Google gives the right route and time information on its map/direction pages and my two portable Garmin units worked perfectly right out of the box---so it is not that these routes are not commonly known. I have been unable to get anyone to help me from Subaru or TomTom. I do not recommend buying a Subaru with the TomTom in dash system. What you will have is a very unrelliable device (actually worse than that as it gives you bad information rather than simply failing) and it will be staring at you all the time you are driving--reminding you of your purchasing mistake as it confusingly and counterintuitively runs the radio and phone options in your car as well. As was said, the instruction manual is worthless as is the instructional DVD. And the screen directions must make sense to the guy who programmed them, but I doubt if many folks are going to understand how it all works without multiple hours of experimentation.

Subaru customer service told me to call the dealer. Did that. No response from the dealer. Probably my last Subaru. Certainly would never recommend TomTom. I am very disappointed in Subaru Customer service as well. This is not what I expected. I will probably drive to the dealership today (a circuitous 1 hour 28 minute trip according to Tom Tom that takes no longer than 55 minutes for anyone living here) to see if there is something wrong with this particular unit. Seems like it is more than that, but one can hope.

Re: FIrst Impression of Eclipse II on Subaru Forester

Petethecat — Thu, 30 Jun 2011 16:43:35 GMT

OK more on the saga of this device. Went to the dealership and they were very nice about it but were unable to make the thing work properly either. A couple of techs spent more than an hour working on it and confirmed that indeed: the device conjures up circuitous routes when set on ""fastest route". and that it estimates incredibly long ETAs for all trips off the interstate (they saw, for instance, that the device said it would take 1 hour 29 minutes to cover what Garmin and Google Maps correctly says is a 58 minute trip (there is only one road, so it could not get that wrong). I took along printouts from Google maps, Mapquest, and my portable Garmin Nuvi, which all agreed on the preferred routes and valid ETAs. The TomTom route me 30 miles out of the way and added an hour to a trip beyond what all the other direction finders dictated on a 135 mile trip. The dealer service folks said they were on the phone to the Subaru folks and no one has seen this before. Maybe it is a glitch that only affects a certain geography (this does not seem likely), maybe this is simply a defective unit (this seems even less likely). I wonder if there is anyone else out there who is using this system with success in other parts of the country. Or here in Maine along the coast. I expected to like one nav system better than the other. I did not expect this one to be essentially useless. At this point I would not trust this anywhere for any route recommendation or ETA. It will be interesting to see what Subaru does next. Or if we will ever discover what is the problem here.

Re: FIrst Impression of Eclipse II on Subaru Forester

schmatti — Thu, 30 Jun 2011 18:10:50 GMT

I haven't tried this but I havn't had any difficulties yet (Maybe because I haven't gone anywhere...). The link below is for a saftware that will integrate Google maps into your Tomtom.

http://www.janboersma.nl/gett/index.php

I hope it works for you! :)

Re: FIrst Impression of Eclipse II on Subaru Forester

Seattleite — Mon, 04 Jul 2011 16:14:05 GMT

Thanks for sharing your travails..... Sorry about the problems. I'm just curious though. Can you actually see that daggone screen. When the sun is out, during they day, we can't see the screen even.... I'm not saying it's hard to see.... I'm saying it's impossible to see. Anyone else having this problem..... Because if you are, I think we should organize a group to go back to Subaru and TomTom and DEMAND that they create a unit that can be plugged into this spot that's actually useful..... EIther that, or they should refund our money!

Re: FIrst Impression of Eclipse II on Subaru Forester

Petethecat — Mon, 04 Jul 2011 18:03:32 GMT

I will agree that the screen is hard to see, particularly if you have the sunroof open. I do not recall seeing a way to brighten the screen or increase the contrast as on my Garmin units. But I would settle if the darn thing even worked correctly for its basic functions. Something is very wrong here and I am getting nowhere with the folks. As I said the dealer says they have never seen anything like it, but also acknowledge that they have not sold many of the installed navigation systems--most buyers must be smarter than me.. Someone suggested the Eclipse II just became available around the first of the year. The dealer has been nice, has promised to follow through, spent a few hours trying to reset everything, they talked with Subaru while they were working on it-- acknowledged there is a problem, but were unsuccessful in providing a fix, and I still have circuitous routes and irrationally long elapsed times. It is totally useless device so I just wish it would go away. I am very very sorry I got an installed navigation device in my new car. Will never have another TomTom product after this.

Does yours actually give you good directions (routes are the most direct? elapsed times are more or less credible?) I used the computer version of the TomTom itinerary planning software that came with the device and it actually gives the correct routes and realistic elapsed times for these trips from my home computer. However, when I try to schedule those same trips with the same settings on the Eclipse II it does not work. I have downloaded all the new maps. updated the software on line, rechecked all the settings, The dealer has spent hours on it. Something is very wrong. I cannot believe that my unit is the only one that has this problem. Seems like a programming error in the device itself. If there are more of them with problems like we are experiencing, I think we should go to other websites and alert potential buyers to avoid this thing. I have already done all I can with Subaru and TomTom. Maybe the holiday has interrupted their follow through, but I am not much impressed.

Re: FIrst Impression of Eclipse II on Subaru Forester

Seattleite — Tue, 05 Jul 2011 01:47:26 GMT

Haven't noticed the route problem you're having..... MOst of my driving has been around Seattle, and it seems to do OK....But I can't see the screen. I've set it on the highest brightness setting I can, but mostly it's just washed out and impossible to see when the sun is out.... We're kicking ourselves for purchasing the car with this installed option...... And my wife has now put her $100 Garmin up on the windshield so she has a navigation system she can use. The little portable Garmin is twice as bright as the installed Tom Tom, and you can actually see what it's showing you. I think TomTom and Subaru need to fix the unit that plugs into the car and replace all the old ones.

Re: FIrst Impression of Eclipse II on Subaru Forester

Petethecat — Tue, 05 Jul 2011 10:08:24 GMT

Since I have to use my Garmin if I actually want accurate directions and elapsed times, i will compare the Garmin and TomTom units I have and let you know about the brightness issue on my units. I think I noticed it was dimmer, but I have been able to read it, but it has not been very sunny here in the last month. What is going on with the routes and elapsed time issues on my Eclipse II is spooky, because it appears to give OK information on short trips in urban areas, but is wildly unreliable if going a distance of over 40 miles.. It is not like the TomTom folks do not have the proper route and algorithms to get accurate elapsed times--as the itinerary planning software on their site calculates it correctly--it is that this device cannot perform the same function accurately. You may find this out if you take a longer trip if this is a generic problem with this unit..

I agree that Subaru and TomTom have something they apparently did not test very well or a significant quality control issue. . If they cannot fix mine to give usable information I will continue to pursue them. The dealer service people seem genuinely embarrassed about it all and promise to get it resolved, , but the response I got on the TomTom help site yesterday was completely incoherent (I may post it on this site so that folks can see how bad it can get) ----I think it was from someone who did not understand the English language. Really horrible experience all around. I did not know anything about TomTom before, but I expected more of Subaru.

Re: FIrst Impression of Eclipse II on Subaru Forester

Elliot — Tue, 05 Jul 2011 13:34:05 GMT

I would be interested in forming a group to put pressure on Subaru/Tom Tom to do something about this issue. I agree with all of the posts in this thread - the devise is useless. I would like mine to be uninstalled and replaced with a simple radio. I have a garmin GPS device I've been using instead of the Tom Tom anyway.

I've been to two dealers re: this issue. One was not helpful at all, the other spent hours trying to fix the problem. I do not have time to wait around at the dealer when it appears that there is not a solution to this problem.

Next steps?

Re: FIrst Impression of Eclipse II on Subaru Forester

Petethecat — Tue, 05 Jul 2011 22:10:53 GMT

I am interested in forming a group. I will continue to pursue this a bit further on my own. I will eventually ask the dealer to give me compensation for the non functioning of the device and will take legal action after that. Be sure to document you contacts with everyone in terms of dates, times, etc as this will be valuable if we get to a legal case on the matter. . It would probably be good to go to other sites to warn potential Subaru buyers about these problems. Our individual complaints are probably not making many waves as I would figure TomTom is inured to them. I am really disappointed in Subaru. I really thought they were a better company than this. TomTom's response is pathetic.

Re: FIrst Impression of Eclipse II on Subaru Forester

Seattleite — Wed, 06 Jul 2011 04:42:52 GMT

We agree. Count us in. I think the right thing to do would be to collect the names of everyone who:

1) Bught a Subaru with the Eclipse II and

2) Believes the device is unuseable and

3) Who can find no relief from the dealer

And then to write a letter to Subaru Corporate Headquarters and to TomTom Corporate Headquarters seeking relief.

I'd be happy if they'd replace the detachable display unit with one that is useable. But I think that owners should have an option of that, or getting their money back for the option, or having the unit removed and replaced with a radio and the difference in price. (That way you can go out and buy a portable unit of your choice.)

What do you think of that?

Re: FIrst Impression of Eclipse II on Subaru Forester

Petethecat — Wed, 06 Jul 2011 11:13:58 GMT

I agree entirely with your proposal. We need to figure out how to get hold of others who are having this problem.

I was on the phone with a TomTom technical service last night again (this is the third time trying this after twice trying the chat on line technical support with absurd results which I have copied and retained) . The tech rep actually went over all the written documentation and responses and told me that she had had the same complaint from others with this and other units ("This is the second call today about the same problem today!"--it was recorded). She said that she had filed a concern with the technical leadership about the matter and that they would get back to me in 48 hours about what they are going to do about it. I have no faith whatsoever that anything will happen, but I will report back here.

In the meantime, your options are exactly the right thing for us to ask for. I am thinking one way to get the ball rolling is to approach a dealer and give them the ultimatum. In some states, we have the right to return the car after getting them to fix it 3 times--I will check here in Maine. I will move on it after I hear back from TomTom, but I am going on vacation today for a week, so it will have to wait.

Thanks for your throughtful proposal.

Re: FIrst Impression of Eclipse II on Subaru Forester

brundlefly — Mon, 11 Jul 2011 14:33:17 GMT

You may add owners of the 2011 Impreza Outback Sport model to the disappointed owners of the Eclipse II. I have had all the same issues you have been discussing plus the following:

1. USB device spontaneously lost folders of music

2. No capability to stream music through BLuetooth tho there are indications from Subaru this is supposed to be a feature

3. Silly little things like the "shuffle" feature of music is reset each time you turn on the vehicle in USB mode and songs restart from the beginning. I have cheap stereos in other vehicle that support these capabilities so why not this one?

4. Pedestrian navigation with tis device is almost useless as you have to be walking quickly for it to register movement. This makes it useless for things like geocaching.

I'd be very interested in participating in a group complaint.

Re: FIrst Impression of Eclipse II on Subaru Forester

Elliot — Mon, 11 Jul 2011 15:25:30 GMT

I'm in as well.

Issues:

1. Phone syncs but address book does not download (what's the use of handsfree if I have to pick up my phone and scroll through the contact list to make a call?)

2. Cannot connect ipod via Bluetooth

3. Screen glare is terrible even when manually tilting the device

4. Incorrect driving directions (!!!)

5. Ipod connection does not recognize ipod (it used to, but even then the parking brake had to be engaged, therefore passengers could not use the screen to choose music)

These are in addition to those that have already been listed.

I've been to 2 dealiers to get some of these issues resolved (in MI and NC). They keep telling me they are going to contact their regional person, but are still not able to solve these problems. I will try again this week in NC since my contact person there has been the most helpful (or willing to help) thus far.

I'm documenting my struggle with this and hope that collectively we can get this resolved. I'd be happy if they refunded my $$ and installed a stereo/CD/MP3 player and bluetooth through the steering wheel..

Re: FIrst Impression of Eclipse II on Subaru Forester

bobsinger — Wed, 13 Jul 2011 01:50:30 GMT

I agree. I've had all the same issues and have tried the same fixes. It's a pretty awful unit. I have a 2-3 year old Garmin Nuvii that works such much better. It's constantly losing settings, etc. Yesterday, my configured computer voice disappeared and I had to reinstall it from the CD. How does that happen? It drove me insane scrolling through the list of voices that I don't have installed looking for the one that disappeared, trying to reconfigure it. And what's with the voice navigation feature...has anyone got that working let alone enabled?

I have no real hope that Subaru or TomTom will fix this situation, but I'd still be interested in pursuing it as part of a group effort.

Re: FIrst Impression of Eclipse II on Subaru Forester

Petethecat — Fri, 22 Jul 2011 11:00:43 GMT

I am still working this issue. The problerm is not that this unit is poorly designed (although it obviously is awful) it is that it does not function for its intended purpose. My local Subaru dealer appears to be on my side on this matter and the Service Manager agrees that there is a serious problem here and has been trying to get someone at Subaru to pay attention. The Subaru hot line and chat lines have been useless: Twice they have said they would get back to me. Once they acknowledged that this unit has a serious problem that they were hearing about--NO response after that. I have sent along a complaint to Consumer Reports. Here is what I intend to do:

Ultimatum to Subaru in order of preference:

1. Fix the thing so it gives accurate directions and elapsed times similar to Garmin, Google, and Mapquest dirrectsion or Tom Tom's other units. (I believe this may be impossible, but i will give them the chance)

If not,

2. Replace my radio with something without the navigation and refund the retail price to me of the difference I paid for the car with this device. (I am guessing this is the probably the most likely outcome.

3. If #1 and #2 fail above, I will activate the "lemon law" in my state and return the car. I like the car, but I am unwilling to be confronted by this awful, useless device each time I get in the car.

Seems like TomTom is having other financial problems according to the news today. I am sensing we are dealing with a company that is hatching its own demise.

Re: FIrst Impression of Eclipse II on Subaru Forester

cwalker — Sat, 23 Jul 2011 05:01:14 GMT

I am the unproud owner of the original TomTom Eclipse. That was a travesty from the start. Everybody had problems with it. See this thread http://www.gpsreview.net/tomtom-eclipse-avn2210p/ The newer generation is not new, and is no better. Crutchfield stop selling them.

Re: FIrst Impression of Eclipse II on Subaru Forester

Seattleite — Sat, 23 Jul 2011 17:04:49 GMT

Our dealer too, seems to be concerned. They're going to take the car for a day and work with the unit so that they understand the problem. But I doubt there's anything they can do. They said after they'd documented the problem that they'd see what Subaru would do about it.

At this point, we think we want them to take it out and give us the money we paid for the option. Then we'll take it to a third party installer and have an aftermarket product installed that will work.

If they don't resolve this to our satisfaction, I think the Lemon Law is the right way to go. We paid a lot of money for a new car.... And this stinking TomTom runs the radio, the CD, the bluetooth and the Nav function. It renders an entire portion of the car's funtionality useless. We'll just return the car for our money, or get a replacement car from Subaru without the unit.

I was also thinking that Better Business Bureau might be helpful here.