topic Re: don't buy two Tomtom "devices" - or don't buy any and be happy! in LIVE Services, HD Traffic and other Services

don't buy two Tomtom "devices"

BillJowett — Sat, 10 Sep 2011 10:59:42 GMT

Tomtom insist that I have separate email accounts for each Tomtom This is pretty silly - why not allow several serial numbers to be linked to one eamil account? Not rocket science.

That said I have paid for a year's extension to Live services for one device - but that device still shows that the subscription will expire in 17 days. I asked Tomtom for help on this 3 days ago but have had no reply.

Also when I log into my Tomtom account it does not seem to show any reference to any device.

Can anyone (even Tomtom!) help please?

Re: don't buy two Tomtom "devices"

LewisG — Mon, 05 Dec 2011 13:48:37 GMT

Hi there Bill,

Firstly, the reasoning behind requiring a different account for each device is that if many devices were on one account corruptions would occur with regards to different services being on the account. Also, there is a large sharing issue with the many to one account option which we have removed through only allowing one unit to be linked at any one time to a TomTom account.

The Live services on the device would have stated the end date for the currently running Live services. The newly purchase services would then continue on from that date and the date of expiry would change as per the expiry date of the new services.

I notice that you have previously been in contact with our support team here, but if you do have further questions about this please let me know.

I do hope that this information has been helpful to you.

Thanks,

Lewis

Re: don't buy two Tomtom "devices"

BillJowett — Thu, 08 Dec 2011 08:55:58 GMT

You merely confirm that it's a silly customer unfriendly system.

Which is a shame as you took 3 months to reply.

and you did not comment on why I cannot see in each account which specific device is registered to it.

But there you go! What on earth would I have to do if I had six "devices'!

Re: don't buy two Tomtom "devices"

LewisG — Thu, 08 Dec 2011 09:25:58 GMT

I have explained the full reasoning for the one device per account for you. This may be an inconvenience to you, for which I apologise, but a greater inconvenience would be to place incompatible mapping on all 6 devices and then have to resolve a further, more inconvenient, issue.

With regards to your query over seeing which device is linked to which account, our newer devices actually have this ability within the new management software used with the devices, but unfortunately this isn't available in our TomTom Home software. This may change, however. If you did wish to know then email our customer support and we can look into it for you and compile the details. I cannot do so on here though as this is the forum, and not a direct form of support, being mostly managed by our customer base, hence the time taken for a reply to reach you.

If you had six devices you would require 6 different accounts, as is the requirement stated in my previous information.

Thanks,

Lewis

Re: don't buy two Tomtom "devices"

Chewie — Sat, 10 Dec 2011 21:40:02 GMT

I don't think you've explained any reasoning at all - I think you've given the reason for it, though, which is not the same.

To me, the 'reason' looks to be a lack of foresight when this system was envisaged.

Having purchased many computer parts to build/upgrade/fix people's computers, I can tell you that TomTom's is the only manufacturer support site that I have come across that does not allow one to register more than one product to an account.

The situation is daft, ludicrous... imbecilic.

Really, it's no more than you would expect from TomTom if you read these forums.

Re: don't buy two Tomtom "devices"

gbdoc — Tue, 13 Dec 2011 10:15:47 GMT

You're absolutely right, Chewie, both in what you're having a problem with (which shouldn't be a problem at all), as well as TomTom's refusal/inablity to address the problem usefully, or even promptly. As good as the TomTom navigation is, on all devices (and it's very good!), their customer services and support are shamefully poor. They're simply not doing what they could and should do, which most other companies (Apple, Kensington, to name just a couple) with similar situations do easily, and their "reasoning" simply documents that.

Re: don't buy two Tomtom "devices"

gbdoc — Tue, 13 Dec 2011 10:44:40 GMT

>I have explained the full reasoning for the one device per account for you. This may be an inconvenience to you, for which I apologise, but a greater inconvenience would be to place incompatible mapping on all 6 devices and then have to resolve a further, more inconvenient, issue.

This is only true if you have a useless customer registration and tracking system. I'm sure TomTom is aware that useful systems exist, and are, in fact, in use by many companies. HOME is now capable of knowing who I am and which devices I have - and have paid for. It's only a one further step to channel the appropriate maps, updates, and services, to each of my devices in accordance with any guidelines.

>If you had six devices you would require 6 different accounts, as is the requirement stated in my previous information.

This requirement is going to threaten your business - which is already in trouble because of the increasing popularity of smartphone navigation, including your own iPhone app. Because of your policy, I have now decided to retire my separate device (GO 930), and not replace it with a newer model, and simply use your app on my iPhone. You have just lost about $250.

Re: don't buy two Tomtom "devices"

paulatepc — Tue, 13 Dec 2011 11:41:31 GMT

I have just found this thread by googling and have to agree that it seems amazing to me that you cannot create a second account using the same e-mail address. Fair enough, you may need one account for each device - many people have more than one car now and prefer not to keep taking a device from one top the other.

The reasons Tomtom give are reasonable - ie one account one device; but allow us to create a second account please - seems very basic to me!!

Re: don't buy two Tomtom "devices"

gbdoc — Tue, 13 Dec 2011 16:46:09 GMT

paulatpc, I don't think we disagree at bottom, but sloppy language either leads to or stems from faulty thinking. Each "user" is a client, the person who deals with the company, gets the goods and pays the bills. If Smith buys Kleenex and shoes from a company, that doesn't lead to a separate "Kleenex" and "shoes" account, but to a "Smith" account, containing his items. With regard to TomTom, Smith, the client or user, is one person, and often has only one email address (which TomTom has chosen as the username). He owns and operates several devices, each of which has somewhat different needs (maps, services), all of which are separate items on his bill.

It is TomTom's responsibility to deal with the client, not with his products, so there should not be separate accounts. He should be able to sign in or log on as the customer he is, with the identifier he has, and TomTom should be able to give him the ability to manage any or all of his various devices and products. Even now, through its HOME app on a computer, TomTom can identify the devices you own. It also knows which device has an account or not. And finally, TomTom keeps track of which maps and services have been purchased. With all this capability, it is unreasonable to assume that TomTom could not keep track of which devices have which software and services if it wanted to, and I can't understand why they don't want to - primarily for customers' ease of use, a major sales point, but also for their own bookkeeping.

A final complaint: the iPhone (and probably other smartphones), which can already connect to a computer via USB. It should be possible to establish contact with the HOME app, as well, just as other TomTom devices currently can, so that the iPhone app can be managed from the computer.

Re: don't buy two Tomtom "devices"

Lupus1 — Tue, 13 Dec 2011 19:41:03 GMT

Hi gbdoc,

gbdoc wrote:

A final complaint: the iPhone (and probably other smartphones), which can already connect to a computer via USB. It should be possible to establish contact with the HOME app, as well, just as other TomTom devices currently can, so that the iPhone app can be managed from the computer.

there is just one problem. TT isn't allowed any more to use the FAT32 file system in the way it was using it before. So it isn't possible to use the connection type of USB with the newer devices any more which is the reason for TT to develop the myTT application. This application is the interface between the internet connection of the computer and the ethernet interface the newer devices use by now. So it isn't possible for TT to add new devices to the TT Home app.

Regards

Lars.

Re: don't buy two Tomtom "devices"

Chewie — Tue, 13 Dec 2011 21:01:25 GMT

Hi Lupus1,

You say: "TT isn't allowed any more to use the FAT32 file system in the way it was using it before"

I say: Why do I have no problem copying, moving, replacing or deleting files on my HTC Desire, Sony W995, XDAIIi, several SD/SDHC cards or 4GB/8GB/16GB USB sticks?

If this truly were an issue, TomTomHome wouldn't work either.

The problem obviously lies in the way the device appears to Windows, and how interaction with it is made. Seems like the developers didn't think it through thoroughly enough.

Your post suggests that MTT creates a VPN between TT's server and the device. Sounds cool and safe on the surface, but worst case scenario, the TT server could be hacked and everyones devices rendered inoperable. Also, the VPN means that the user can't see what's actually going on. :\

Re: don't buy two Tomtom "devices"

Lupus1 — Tue, 13 Dec 2011 21:36:29 GMT

Hi Chewie,

please read the links below and you'll see that TT had a law suit against Microsoft and agreed on a settlement. Due to this settlement TT isn't allowed to use two of Microsoft's FAT32 patents any more and therefore decided to use the other interface for their new devices. For the older devices and their use of the TT Home application I think TT paid quite a sum to Microsoft to achieve the right to use those patents.

Microsoft, TomTom settle patent dispute (news.cnet.com hyperlink)

Microsoft v. TomTom (wikipedia hyperlink)

Microsoft v. TomTom: Patent Infringement Action (press release MS hyperlink)

I also read a post by a TT staff member in another topic on this board that the second reason for TT to develop this new software was to establish a closed system so that no one could enter the device any more to fiddle with the files. According to him this was meant to guard the device's software from getting corrupted by false use. I think another reason is to protect their software against piratery which I think is quite an understandable reason for a company like TT.

Regards

Lars.

Re: don't buy two Tomtom "devices"

gbdoc — Tue, 13 Dec 2011 21:47:39 GMT

>there is just one problem. TT isn't allowed any more to use the FAT32 file system in the way it was using it before.

With all due respect, Lupus, what that translates into is that TT has to do it differently. I'm not under the impression that it's easy, else they would have done it already, but they have to solve the problem, not bow to it.

Re: don't buy two Tomtom "devices"

Lupus1 — Tue, 13 Dec 2011 21:56:29 GMT

Hi gbdoc,

to my knowledge the FAT32 file system is still in use. The memory is still formatted in FAT32 as far as I know. Only the access via the explorer isn't possible any more. So they did get another possibility to access the devices and decided at the same time to create a closed system.

But I totally agree with you that there still has much work to be done. I think as well that the myTT application is still flawed and buggy in some places but that will be solved over time. Being no TT employee myself I cannot tell you how fast they're making progress and what their priority list looks like but they need to get this software working as the future of the company also depends on this software.

Regards

Lars.

Re: don't buy two Tomtom "devices"

Alastair43_oops — Mon, 19 Dec 2011 16:56:38 GMT

This is really silly.

Having just bought a new device (but want to keep my old one) I have connected my new device (which came with 12 months free Live Services) to my old account.

This has now trashed my old device which can no longer use Live Services (that I have paid for).

I've also lost my map update service.

It is inconceivably bizarre that TomTom dicates that I am unable to run more than one device unless I have as many email accounts as devices. It is such a basic proposition that someone might want ot mamange two devices from the same account - if nothing else, to prevent having to provide registration and billing details twice.

It is even worse that, having made such a horrific user error (I dared to presume that I could link two devices to one account), I now cannot reverse my error, as it is only possible to change devices on an account every 6 months.

I have had so many problems with TomTom software in the past (not the devices which are generally brilliant), I don't know what possessed me to want two of them. But now I am stuck with two, one of which doesn't work, and the other has limited services.

I am very close to putting both devices in the bin and trying a Garmin.

Yours,

A very bitter TomTom user who has wasted more hours on a PC with TomTom than ANY other vendor.

Re: don't buy two Tomtom "devices"

Kex — Mon, 19 Dec 2011 18:10:32 GMT

I currently have four operating TomTom devices for different vehicles.

On two occasions, I did update an existing account for a new device, because I was not going to be using the old devices any more. Both account updates worked fine, with no errors.
A message was displayed indicating that this could only be done once within a certain time period. After that a call to customer service is necessary for any further changes associated with that e-mail account.
All my existing devices have their own FREE e-mail account, with a name such as George.XL340@*****.com (where the ***** would represent whatever service you prefer to use).
I chose accounts with free POP forwarding, so that I get all messages (or discount coupons) from TomTom directly associated with any of my devices without ever having to open those e-mail accounts. I only have to check for messages on my normal account.

Each device has different services associated with it, such as maps updates, LIVE Services, or other services. Because each account is clearly identified with an associated device, it makes it much easier for TomTom to re-assign any services that were lost by operator error (wiping any old device clean by an accidental format, for example), or otherwise. Without the existing account identification, this would not be possible, or at least not as simply.

Alistair43_oops, if an account has been re-assigned to a new device by mistake, making an old device loose it's service and map associations, then it will be necessary to make sure that you have two usable and available e-mail accounts, and then contact customer services to get the lost services back on the old device. If TomTom didn't manage accounts in this way, then it could make it much more difficult and lengthy to check for associated services and maps (such as a requirement to verify a legitimate purchase, by sending in a copy of receipts and other stuff).

So why all the fuss? It's free and it works. Why fix what ain't broke, as the saying goes? It' seems to me that it's the price that must be paid to have some form of safety net when (but only if) errors do occur.

Just remember to use POP forwarding to make it easier to manage your accounts. You can also make your life easier by using account names that are logical. For example: if your current e-mail is George.Lala@teletubies.com, then try using TomTom accounts such as George.XL340LIVE@teletubies.com, George.GO1535LIVE@teletubies.com ... and so forth.

Re: don't buy two Tomtom "devices"

Alastair43_oops — Mon, 19 Dec 2011 18:50:15 GMT

Thanks for the advice, Kex, and it would probably be fairly tolerable if this was an isolated support failure. But I had so many problems with my last device. Not the device itself but every time I tried to update the software, maps etc, a problem resulted.

Nothing is ever easy with Tomtom in my experience except, arguably, the dexterity with which money is removed your wallet.

Re: don't buy two Tomtom "devices"

gbdoc — Mon, 19 Dec 2011 21:36:09 GMT

Kex,

Using alias email accounts as you describe is indeed a good way to meet TT's requirements, were it not for two problems. First, many (most?) ISP's allow only so many aliases (mine allows five), and some users may have already used up their allotment. Second, most of the people I know aren't computer-savvy enough to even know about aliases and forwarding, what they are, and how or why to set them up or use them. So yes, TT's system works. Is it as good a system as can be? No. It's a PIA.

If TT wanted to, they could easily set up a tracking program like the one I described in an earlier post, with which they could serve all their customers' accounts and devices just as securely as now, but much easier for the customer. Take a look at Apple's App Store for a good example of what can be done if you really want to, to make sure that you do this well, so as to make it easy, not hard, to buy stuff and keep it up to date, and not lose people because of an unsatisfactory or frustrating customer experience.

Re: don't buy two Tomtom "devices"

Kex — Tue, 20 Dec 2011 20:25:10 GMT

I would suggest using free online e-mail services, gbdoc, not "official" ISP e-mail accounts, or even alias accounts ... even though my ISP providers allow five to ten "family member" addresses (depending on which one I use).

POP forwarding is a standard feature for any user of Outlook or Thunderbird, or whatever other e-mail client application is being used (even if the user only has a single e-mail account), so most users "should" really be aware of how to use it, but they can even use "fake" e-mail accounts if they prefer, with NO service provider at all, and no forwarding will be either necessary or possible. This simply means that those users would not be able to receive any discount coupons that may be available to them for their devices. An address like frankenstein.monster@scary.com will work perfectly, if anyone wants to use it!

Is there another way to do it? There is always more than one way to solve any problem, and each method will have it's own benefits and drawbacks (and the methods implemented by Apple have their critics as well). Did TomTom choose the best way? Maybe, maybe not ... but it certainly does work in my experience, and I've certainly never had a single issue with it, once I got over the idea of managing e-mail accounts for different devices. You soon realize that you don't ever have to "visit" those extra accounts to check for messages, so I don't think it's such a bad system after all. It certainly isn't a major issue in my opinion.

Re: don't buy two Tomtom "devices"

LewisG — Tue, 20 Dec 2011 08:41:32 GMT

Hi there Kex,

You bring up some great points for the system for which I failed to note in my original posts. Things here seemed to have become quite heated since I last visited this thread.

I will state also that with iTunes you are able to purchase services with multiple certificates for multiple units linked to the account. This isn't so with TomTom. There is only one allowable certificate for each service which can be linked to any one account.

Alastair43_oops, I will private message you about your current issues. There is a way we can unravel this for you.

Thanks,

Lewis